Why is it that a pipe organ has such a majestic "ambience"?  I'm
thinking primarily of the context of worship in the Christian Church.
Why is it that the pipe organ seems to have the capacity to give a
sense of formality and grandeur to worship, which other
instruments--even a
complete orchestra--don't seem to be capable of achieving?  I realize
there is a cultural aspect to this.  However, I suspect there is more,
which perhaps those who have a good deal of experience with the
instrument and expertise in this area might be able to answer.  Please
help me find an
explanation for this phenomenon.

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Request for Question Clarification by easterangel-ga on 27 May 2003 01:47 PDT

Hi! 

Since most of us Google Answers Researchers are expert researchers,
would you accept as an answer coming from a non-expert on pipe organs.
I will concentrate more on the use of pipe organs in worship. I will
try to find different articles about this matter.

Just let me know. :)

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Clarification of Question by jat-ga on 03 Jun 2003 22:44 PDT

Glad to have anyone searching that can lead me to a satisfactory
answer.  To broaden the question a bit, I'm thinking not only of pipe
organs but also the newer, electronic organs which have digital
sampling that enables them to approximate the sound of pipe organs (I
realize it's not the same for the purist).  In any event, surely there
have been articles written out there somewhere by organists, or guild
publications or something which address my question.  Why do they help
create a sense of awe, an ambience of majesty?  How is it that an
organ, perhaps more than any other instrument, has this capability? 
Surely, it's more than cultural.  Thanks for your help...

Hello there

There are many reasons a pipe organ has the "majestic" sound it does. 
But the most important reason is pipe positioning.

With a well constructed and installed pipe (not all have that
"majestic" sound") there is a thing called "sound separation" which is
unknown in any other instrument or even a full orchestra.

There is also the "speaking of the pipe" which is a characteristic
missing in other instruments.

As you will see as the answer continues, it is a combination of these,
and other, unique qualities that creat the "cathedral" sound, even
within some fairly limited spaces.

As for the "sound separation," even though the pipe ranks of a pipe
organ usually look as though they are all in one place, in well
designed organs they really are not.  Some of the pipes may be behind
the manual, thus giving the traditional look of the pipe organ.  Other
pipes may be hidden within the walls of the structure itself
(vibrating the very fabric of the building and giving a very real but
often unrecognized sense of "feeling" the music as well as hearing
it.)  An excellent example of this kind of placement is found with the
organs of the 1st Congregational Church in Los Angeles.  This "in
structure" placement may have pipes high and near the ceiling, to the
side, and with some of the larger individual pipes, even plumeting
beneath floor level.  This enables us to hear the different register
families, grouped on the various manuals, sounding from different
spaces within the room or structure where the organ is placed. - -
Even a symphony orchestra generally plays from only one staging
location while an organ may play from every direction in the church,
theater or hall at the same time.

The organ I mentioned at 1st Congregational Church is one you need to
hear if you get the chance.  They have free concerts every Thursday at
noon.  This organ has a total of some 376 ranks and 22,000+ pipes. 
They are planning on expanding it.  In fact, I am listening to my own
tapes of it as I type this answer.

The "speaking of the pipe" may be one of the most important
characteristics of all.  It is caused by the air turbulence created
when the air rushes into the pipe once a pressed key opens the wind
channel under it.  This "clearing of the throat" is another one of
those things you may not consciously notice but your sub-conscious
does, just as it notices the vibrations of the church or hall while
you consciously do not.

Much of the grandure of the pipe organ is in those things you are not
really aware of, but your mind is registering anyway.  In most, no, in
fact in all cases, where the organ music is truly grand and majestic,
rather than simply sound, the building housing the instrument is an
integral part of the instrument rather than simply housing it. 
Something that cannot be said of any other instrument or group of
instruments.

The great cathedral, church and hall organs of the world all have the
fabric of the building being considered as part of the instrument. 
While orchestras may concern themselves with the acoustics of a
concert hall or church setting, they do not concern themselves with
what members of an audience will "feel" if they reach out and touch a
wall or the back of a seat or pew.  Great organ makers do.

When attending a church where a great organ is part of the service,
the whole building sings to the glory of God, not just the
congregation.

Beyond that, when we are listening to the lesser pipe organs or
(shudder) digital or electronic organs, we sub-consciously carry the
grandure with us and impose it on what we are hearing.  That is a good
thing for it can often make the average seem superlative.

As for published studies, etc, I doubt they exist.  Great organ
builders simply don't publish "how to" manuals about instrument
building and sound quality.  They may publish the mechanics of
building one, but an organ building master is as much an artist as the
musician who will eventually play it.  Knowing all the techniques does
not make every painter an "artist" and knowing the techniques of organ
building does not make every manufacturer of instruments a "master."

What I am giving you is second hand information.  I am not an
organist.  I am merely a die hard fan.  But I have learned from and
talked with the best and have heard the best.  I will refer you to my
answer to another question.
http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=93266 - You
may want to read my comment before you read my answer.  The
information I have passed to you, I learned from one of the greatest
organists who ever lived. - George Wright.

I hope what he had to say is sufficient as an answer.

Cheers
digsalot

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Request for Answer Clarification by jat-ga on 04 Jun 2003 01:24 PDT

Thanks for the input.  I'd like to get published articles, not on the
"how-to" of pipe organs/digital organs, but something which deals with
the question I originally asked.  Surely, someone like the Rogers
organ company or some of the others must have something valuable to
contribute towards answering this?  Are there any other sites which
might deal with this kind of thing?  I'm trying to carry on a debate
between the "let's have guitars" crowd and the "organ is preferable"
group as to what is more appropriate for a worship service that is
majestic, in keeping with the Almighty, Sovereign, Triune God we
worship.  Therefore, the more info I can gather, the better.  There is
even a semiotic aspect to this; for example, the guitar is a far more
personal, casual kind of instrument, whereas the organ is more formal.
 So...keep that info coming.  I'll bump the research price paid
another ten bucks if you can help me further.  Again, thanks...

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Clarification of Answer by digsalot-ga on 04 Jun 2003 14:02 PDT

Hello again

Now that I know more about what you are attempting, it will make
things much easier.  Your initial question seemed to be asking about
sound qualities and why the sound qualities are the way the are.

When it comes to liturgics, I have a strong feeling we are on the same
side.  I have never considered a guitar or a rock band in the
sanctuary as being conductive to a mind centering liturgy. (I don't
even like a piano in the sanctuary)

Even when an orchestra (or better yet, a brass choir) is used, it
should be in conjunction with the organ. (personal opinion only)  The
real question is worship vs. entertainment. Unfortunately so much of
what is called "contemporary" is just entertainment. (once again
personal opinion only)

We have the same discussions in my Buddhist temple.  Traditional chant
and instrumentation vs more western style worship.  In this case, I
support the western style.  It means we are thinking of buying an
organ for the temple.  I do have a bias there.

You mentioned "Rogers Organ Company" and if you do not have a pipe
organ, Rogers is as close as you will get.  When Grace Cathedral in
San Francisco replaced their old pipe with an electronic instrument,
they selected a Rogers.  The reason being that the Rogers organ
installed was deliberately designed to have that particular quality of
sound.  It was quite a project.  This particular instrument has
sounding capabilities that have come very close to capturing the
original, even to the "speaking of the pipe" and a tendency toward
barely noticeable pitch and tone changes that one would find caused by
changing air pressure in the organ box.  They did everything short of
having a pipe that would get stuck in the open position (something you
really don't want to hear).  A magnificent job of voicing.

If you are thinking of installing a new pipe, I would recommend a
Frattelli Ruffatti.

As for the extra ten dollars you are offering, I would rather you
contribute that to an organ purchase fund if you don't already have
one, or to the maintainance fund if you do.  I think we have common
cause.

Just so you know, I am considered a pipe organ snob.

One of the things I neglected to mention above when I was talking
about an organ building "master" is the necessity for hand
craftsmanship in building an instrument.  There are too many pipes
being installed now which, while still sounding good, do not sound
great.  One of the reasons is the use of modern manufacturing
techniques such as making everything to a "standard" scale that
cheapen pipe-making - for example machine planing or mechanical
processes in finishing.  Top quality pipes need to be made to
individual specifications.  No two two stops the same scale, mouth
widths vary, ears can be soft for tuning or rigid and  many other
details have to be considered in order to creat a first rate sound. 
Pipes really do need to be planed by hand to ensure an even drop in
thickness from pipe to pipe and allow for a thinner top on the pipe
when it is cone tuned.  - - but I digress.

I guess I will digress once again. - - There are many (most) who think
a pipe organ was designed as a substitute for a full orchestra. 
However, that was not the case.  The symphony orchestra, as evolved in
western culture, was in reality a substitute designed for use in
medieval cathedrals and churches which could not afford the
installation of an organ.

As for the debate over traditional worship (pipes) and contemporary
worship, much is of course subjective.  I am going to send you to a
website where the debate is raging and you may pick up some pointers
to support our cause.  (notice, it became "OUR" cause now)  If you are
on the guitar side, I'm in real trouble.

Here is one quote from the website:

"Although I truly love nearly all kinds of music (except heavy metal
which actually damages hearing) I can't help but prefer strong
congregational singing "led" by a good pipe organ! Some contemporary
worship enthusiastists declare that all traditional music----including
pipe organs, classical music---Bach and the rest, and strong
traditional hymns that have stood the test of time should all be
"dumped in the river" or "set on fire". Certain church promoters
preach that all worship services can resound with praise bands and
trivial praise songs led by "cranked up" (sound-wise) song leaders--so
loud that you cannot hear the congregation singing at all. Granted,
new ideas and new worship plans are necessary and important, but do we
need to completely "dummy-down" church worship to the point of
insulting any real musician who wants to participate. My daughter and
husband currently worship in a large downtown church in Portland,
Oregon that has a wonderful music ministry, including one of the best
pipe organs in the Pacific Northwest. The "drive" downtown is so far
that one Sunday they decided to try another church right in their
neighborhood---and did. The songs didn't even have "available music"
but were printed on an overhead screen and were accompanied by
guitarists. There was no piano and no organ in the place----which
actually looked like a community center or dinner hall rather than a
church. Since my daughter and husband are musicians they were
"insulted" by the lack of MUSIC to read. I told her she should have
sung at the top of her lungs (she is a trained singer) any old tune
she could think of. They declared that they will never go there again
and will make the "drive" to the downtown church. Funny thing----that
downtown church is packed every Sunday with all ages, a loving
Christ-like atmosphere, and it is (here goes that naughty word) a
"traditional" service. This, of course, is just one "warped" pipe
organist's opinion. Pat Harris"
http://www.javacasa.com/wts/worship.htm - The website is "WTS
dialogue: Worship Styles and Theology" - You will find statements both
pro and con in these postings.

While this next article does not address organ music per se, I think
you will find it interesting and it could be a good argument for the
cause.

"Contemporary Worship Does Not Excite Youth"
http://user.txcyber.com/~wd5iqr/tcl/cwyouth.htm

As for the "ambience" of a pipe as asked in your original question,
there is no one single thing that creates it.  It is "all of the
above."  It is a combination of pipe placement, integration with the
housing structure, quality of manufacture, range of sound and last of
all, perhaps because of all of that, a pipe can create a sense of the
ethereal which separates the divine from the mundane. (now listening
to a recording of the Beckerath Organ, at St. Andrews Kirch,
Hildesheim, Germany which is an excellent example of that sound.)

I don't think anybody who loves these instruments can publish a
statement which says "this one thing"" is what gives a pipe organ its
ambience.  Every pipe or, top class digital, is a unique living thing,
custom crafted and voiced for a particular use and location.  I hope
you took the time to read my other answer listed in the first part of
this answer.  We are discussing a topic near and dear.

If I am still missing the point of your question, keep coming with
clarification requests.  As you can tell, it is a topic I enjoy.

Cheers
digs

Hi, jat,

I signed up to GA to send you this comment. Without giving my full
background, let's just say I have strong experience in music. My music
has been performed in public and recorded. In fact, one of my first
classical compositions is an organ piece.

You ask about the pipe organ's "majestic ambience." My guess would be
that you're hearing the grand overtones that the pipe organ is capable
of. Many of the pipes are so long that an incredible number of
overtones are produced. (You might like to do a web search for
"overtones" or "overtone series," if you're not already familiar with
those terms.) And the stops of the pipe organ--the switches that allow
the organ to mimic other instruments and to vary its sounds in other
ways--allow the organ to produce a variety of sounds that no other
single instrument can match. And whatever sounds it's set up to
produce, I like to think of the pipe organ as having a "roundness of
tone." That's not a technical phrase, just one that makes sense to me.

As far as the pipe organ giving formality and grandeur to worship
ceremonies, my guess is that that's just what many Western cultures
are used to. Some church services do use multiple musicians, but
they're expensive. (Most first-class church musicians I know of are
paid, and this certainly applies to organists.) Since the organ is
capable of supplying a great variety of tones, it's possible to hire
one organist instead of X number of other musicians. Organs have been
used in Western churches for centuries, and, as I said above, it's
what people have gotten used to in Western religious ceremonies. In
fact, many people only associate pipe organ music with religious
music. But the fact is that much secular music has been written for
the pipe organ, and it, too, is often thought to be formal and
grandiose--majestic, in fact.

Gatsby

P.S. Though I've read many good Google answers by journalist-ga, I
don't by the DNA-memory/Pied Piper theories, either.

Ack--sorry for the typo in my P.S. That should be "buy," of course,
not "by."

Here's the corrected P.S.:

P.S. Though I've read many good Google answers by journalist-ga, I
don't buy the DNA-memory/Pied Piper theories, either.


Sorry about the typo, jat!

Gatsby

You have some great intelectual answers.  May I submit a basic
simplistic answer.  A good pipe organ has a majestic effect because of
it's dynamic range.  From 16 cycles per second, to high frequencies
beyond the range of human hearing.  You feel the sound in addition to
hearing it.  The air from a pipe organ flows from the pipes, through
the building.  Most other instruments only vibrate the air.  An
electronic organ for example uses paper cone speakers.  If a note
moves the cone forward, it has to spring back, so it takes back what
it gave, only vibrating the air, not moving it through the building
like a pipe organ.  Therefore, the electronic immitation can never be
equal to the real thing.

Electronic organs, even the best of them produce harmonic distortion
and intermodulation distortion.  The digital models poarticularly. 
After 35 years as an organ technician and piano tuner, I have come to
a point where I will listen to a good pipe organ in the church, but I
would rather hear a good piano than an electronic organ.  There is
nothing majestic about distortion.