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Q: PROSE AS MUSIC ( No Answer,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: PROSE AS MUSIC
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Books and Literature
Asked by: cocoa-ga
List Price: $25.00
Posted: 17 Jun 2003 11:30 PDT
Expires: 17 Jul 2003 11:30 PDT
Question ID: 218417
I am writing a thesis on the topic of prose as music.  The Sonata
musical form seems to me to be analagous to the Aristotelian theory of
tragedy:  a three part form having a beginning, middle and end with
the denoument coming in the middle.  So, for example, Beethoven's
first movement of his 5th symphony is in a Sonata form with an
Expostion, Development and Recapitulation.

My question is:  Are there any books, reference materials which
illustrate the application of musical forms to prose?  Any of the
different musical forms?  And, I am specifically interested in the
application of the Sonata form.

Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 17 Jun 2003 14:27 PDT
cocoa --

I get the impression from your question that you are most interested
in similarities in formal structure between prose genres or particular
works of prose (e.g., novels, essays, stories) and the formal
structure of musical works -- especially the sonata form.

Is that a fair general description of what you are looking for?  If
so, are you particularly interested in examples of prose works that
have been analyzed in these terms?  Could you be more specific about
elements of musical structure -- other than the sonata form -- that
interest you?

Any added specificity would be useful to researchers interested in
tackling your question.  It seems to be a little open-ended right now.

markj-ga

Clarification of Question by cocoa-ga on 17 Jun 2003 15:30 PDT
Thank you for your clarification request.  Yes, I am most interested
in similarities in formal structure of particular works of prose and
the formal structure of musical works.

At the moment, I am engaged in critiquing THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA
according to the Sonata musical form.  In no way do I believe that
Hemingway was inspired by the Sonata form when he wrote the tale; it
just seems to fit. This particular musical form seems analogous to
Aristotle's beginning, middle and end theory of drama, allowing for
sub-movements within each of the three big parts. The two forms appear
to me to be parallel.

As a musician and prose writer, I am looking for analagous forms.  I
have a prose and music example for  theme & variations and a prose and
music example for canons and fugues.

Right now I feel like I'm fictionalizing my evidence and am wondering
if anyone else has taken musical forms and applied them to prose.  How
does one translate sound to words if not through structure or maybe
graphics?

Clarification of Question by cocoa-ga on 17 Jun 2003 15:35 PDT
Thank you for your clarification request.  Yes, I am most interested
in similarities in formal structure of particular works of prose and
the formal structure of musical works.
 
At the moment, I am engaged in critiquing THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA
according to the Sonata musical form.  In no way do I believe that
Hemingway was inspired by the Sonata form when he wrote the tale; it
just seems to fit. This particular musical form seems analogous to
Aristotle's beginning, middle and end theory of drama, allowing for
sub-movements within each of the three big parts. The two forms appear
to me to be parallel.
 
As a musician and prose writer, I am looking for analagous forms.  I
have a prose and music example for  theme & variations and a prose and
music example for canons and fugues.
 
Right now I feel like I'm fictionalizing my evidence and am wondering
if anyone else has taken musical forms and applied them to prose.  How
does one translate sound to words if not through structure or maybe
graphics?

Clarification of Question by cocoa-ga on 17 Jun 2003 17:13 PDT
Clarification of Question by cocoa-ga  on 17 Jun 2003 15:30 PDT

Thank you for your clarification request.  Yes, I am most interested
in similarities in formal structure of particular works of prose and
the formal structure of musical works.
 
At the moment, I am engaged in critiquing THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA
according to the Sonata musical form.  In no way do I believe that
Hemingway was inspired by the Sonata form when he wrote the tale; it
just seems to fit. This particular musical form seems analogous to
Aristotle's beginning, middle and end theory of drama, allowing for
sub-movements within each of the three big parts. The two forms appear
to me to be parallel.
 
As a musician and prose writer, I am looking for analagous forms.  I
have a prose and music example for  theme & variations and a prose and
music example for canons and fugues.
 
Right now I feel like I'm fictionalizing my evidence and am wondering
if anyone else has taken musical forms and applied them to prose.  How
does one translate sound to words if not through structure or maybe
graphics?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: PROSE AS MUSIC
From: journalist-ga on 17 Jun 2003 12:49 PDT
 
Greetings Cocoa:

I'm not 100% certain this is what you are searching for and I wanted
to post my findings for you anyway.  Should this be on target, please
let me know and I'll post my findings as an answer and do additional
searches in this direction.

From http://www.sarabandebooks.org/sarabande/Authors/Kristin%20Herbert/998340953337/readers_guide/creative_writing.html

In his essay "The Music of Prose," William Gass writes: "The producers
of prose do not play scales or improve their skills by repeating
passages of De Quincey or Sir Thomas Browne, although that might be a
good idea." Joan Didion typed out Hemingway's stories to see how they
worked; Somerset Maugham copied out a page of Jonathan Swift each day;
Eudora Welty transcribed pages from the King James Bible. Pull out a
book you admire and copy out a scene that strikes you as powerful. Try
writing a scene of description or your own in the same manner. Try
writing it in the styles of several different authors. Write it in the
style of a writer you despise.

"Listen to music. Find a piece of music that evokes the mood of a
scene you wish to write, or are trying to write. Is it rock? Folk?
Jazz? Rap? See what it inspires in you. If you tend to write short,
declarative sentences, see how Bach's Cello Suites affect your prose.
If you write long, discursive pieces, listen to punk rock for fifteen
minutes, then try to write.

"If you would like to learn about improvising, listen closely to the
jazz masters; decide how that music succeeds. If you want to
understand rhythm, tone, theme, circularity—or learn to play with
variations on a theme—listen to a work of complex classical music
(Beethoven's or Mozart's symphonies; Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No.
3)."

*************

From an interview with writer John Shirley from on September 1998
[Original interview and English translation by Jan Dominik
Kucharzewski ]
http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/jsinterscreem.html

SCREEM: Your prose is often compared to modern rock music. What do you
think of comparison? And how conscious is your use of a certain
musical language in your fiction?

SHIRLEY: I used to use it a little bit consciously but mostly it was
something that issued from me like sparks of electricity from a Van
der Graff generator: generated from within. I hear music in prose; I
hear prose in music. Storytelling was all originally chanted, millenia
ago, and that bardic presence is still there in it. It's possible --
for my taste at least - to go too far in infusing poetry and
musicality in storytelling, as then one loses lucidity. Lucidity
penetrates to the inner being of the reader, and that's where an
artist aims to go.
“The Music of Prose.” Antaeus 71/72 (Autumn 1993): 10-21

*************

Best regards,
journalist-ga


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Subject: Re: PROSE AS MUSIC
From: kmcgilvery-ga on 18 Jun 2003 00:10 PDT
 
It sounds to me like you might benefit from looking into the OuLiPo--
the acronym stands for Ouvrouir de Litterature Potentielle, or the
Workshop for Potential Literature- it's a group of mainly French
writers who write from constraints, like mathematical-type
limitations. Though I'm not familiar with any of their work having a
specifically musical basis, it wouldn't be out of character for
Oulipians to write from some complicated sort of chord structure.
Notable Oulipians include Harry Matthews, Raymond Queneau, Georges
Perec. There is, I believe, a branch of the Oulipo that deals with
constraint-based music, probably called the OuMuPo. Harry Matthews
edited a brilliant "Oulipo Compendium" published by Atlas Press.

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