Is lumber an "agricultural product"?  

Please cite any evidence for and/or against from laws, regulations,
decisions or any other governmental releases.

Failing that or in addition to that, I would like know what
is the weight of authority outside the governmental or legal
field..i.e. encyclopedias, public consensus (as evidenced by a poll or
something), historical information.

Please provide me with links to webpages that you are citing from.  Or
if you are research off web, the citations to the reference material
used.

---

Request for Question Clarification by digsalot-ga on 24 Jun 2003 13:47 PDT

You are asking about lumber rather than timber.  Timber, depending on
how it is produced may or may not be considered an agricultural
product and even there the definition can be hazy.

Lumber however, is a 'value added manufactured product' much in the
way that while wheat is an agricultural product, processed flour is a
value added manufactured product.

Are you asking about timber?

---

Clarification of Question by varinewu-ga on 25 Jun 2003 06:11 PDT

Ahh..yes.  Timber would do just as well.  Forestry products might be a
better way of putting it.  Thanks.

---

Request for Question Clarification by thx1138-ga on 25 Jun 2003 07:49 PDT

Hello varinewu and thank you for your question. 

Well, I have researched your question for more hours than I care to
think and I can't give you a straight answer!  except to say lumber
might be considered an agricultural product, depending on where you
are, who you are talking too, and what your definition of
lumber/timber is (not very helpful, I know)

The problem is that different states have different interpretations,
some consider timber/lumber to be an agricultural product and some do
not.  Even at a federal level there seems to be some confusion.  Have
a look at the research I did.

First of all let's try to define exactly what lumber is. According to
most dictionaries lumber is "the wood of trees cut and prepared for
use as building material" see http://www.onelook.com/?w=lumber&ls=a

and: 
"LUMBER: 
Any wood product that has been processed by a sawmill and plaining
mill. Lumber is defined as wood that has not been processed further
than what is done by a standard saw and plaining mill."
http://www.atkinsteam.com/glossary/construction/L.html 

and "TIMBER"
"Timber is a term used to describe clusters of trees. It is also used
to describe wood throughout its processing from the time it is cut
down to the time it is used as a structural material."

BUT:
"TIMBER LUMBER:
Any lumber that is 5 inches or more in dimension. This includes beams,
posts and girders."
http://www.atkinsteam.com/glossary/construction/index.htm


According to "The Alaska Legal Resource Center" 
"(1) "agricultural products" includes dairy products, timber and
lumber, and products manufactured in the state from timber and
lumber;"
http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/Statutes/Title36/Chapter15/Section050.htm

================================================ 

But in Hawaii: 
Although forestry is an agricultural activity, timber and lumber are
not included in the definition of "agricultural products" in State
law, and thus are not covered by existing agricultural theft statutes.
The purpose of this proposal is to have timber and lumber included
proposal is to have timber and lumber included thus afforded the same
protection as other commodities.
http://www.hfbf.org/Newsletter_files/HFBF_11_02.pdf 

================================================ 

The federal government seems to classify lumber as an agricultural
product:


"Following is a list of the major Harmonized System product categories
for agricultural products."

"Chapter 44 - Wood and Articles of Wood; Wood Charcoal 

4401 FUEL WOOD, WOOD WASTE 
4402 WOOD CHARCOAL 
4403 WOOD IN THE ROUGH, WHETHER OR NOT STRIPPED OF BARK 
4404 HOOPWOOD; SPLIT POLES; PILES PICKETS AND STAKES. 
4405 WOOD WOOL; WOOD FLOUR. 
4406 RAILWAY OR TRAMWAY CROSS-TIES 
4407 WOOD SAWN OR CHIPPED LENGTWISE, SLICED OR PEELED. 
4408 VENEER SHEETS AND SHEETS FOR PLYWOOD. 
4409 WOOD CONTINUOUSLY SHAPED 
4410 PARTICLE BOARD AND SIMILAR BOARD OF WOOD. 
4411 FIBREBOARD OF WOOD OR OTHER LIGNEOUS MATERIALS. 
4412 PLYWOOD, VENEERED PANELS AND SIMILAR WOOD. 
4413 DENSIFIED WOOD, IN BLOCKS, PLATES, STRIPS. 
4414 WOODEN FRAMES FOR PAINTINGS, PHOTOGRAPHS. 
4415 PACKING CASES, BOXES, CRATES, DRUMS ETC. OF WOOD 
4416 CASKS, BARRELS, VATS, TUBS AND OTHER COOPERS' PRODUCTS. 
4417 TOOLS, TOOL BODIES, TOOL HANDLES, BROOM OR BRUSH BODIES. 
4418 BUILDERS' JOINERY AND CARPENTRY OF WOOD. 
4419 TABLEWARE AND KITCHENWARE, OF WOOD. 
4420 WOOD MARQUETRY AND INLAID WOOD. 
4421 OTHER ARTICLES OF WOOD." 
http://ffas.usda.gov/itp/us-tariff-sch.html 

Also: 
"U.S. EXPORTS OF AGRICULTURAL, FISH & FORESTRY PRODUCTS TO TRINIDAD
AND TOBAGO"
"HARDWOOD LUMBER......................." 
"SOFTWOOD AND TREATED LUMBER..........." 
http://www.cbato.fas.usda.gov/Trade%20Mission/Trinidad.htm 

But then they are separated here: 
"VALUE OF TIMBER AND AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS IN THE UNITED STATES, 1991"
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1996/mckee96a.pdf

This seemed to be a fairly straight forward question when I first saw
it, but now I have to admit I'm stumped! (pun intended ;)

I would be interested to hear your feedback on this perplexing
question.

Very best regards

THX1138

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 25 Jun 2003 08:10 PDT

For what it's worth, I think THX1138-ga has given you about as
comprehensive an answer as you're likely to get.  The plain truth is
that different jurisidictions (and different transactions) have
different definitions for what is or is not an "agricultural product".

Reminds me of the days when I used to work food safety issues, and a
constituent wanted to know if frozen pizza was regulated by the US
Dept of Agriculture or the Food and Drug Administration.  Turns out
plain frozen pizzas are covered by FDA as a "food product" while
frozen pepperoni pizzas are covered by USDA as an "agricultural
product"...go figure!

---

Request for Question Clarification by techtor-ga on 25 Jun 2003 08:17 PDT

I for one believe timber is not an agricultural product. I couldn't
give as many website sources as Thx1138 has given, but there is one
website of a reputable university that explains this. I've also found
other instances wherein timber and agriculture are considered to be
separate. But they are very few and mostly .edu sites. I believe
though that they are strongly conclusive on the topic.

---

Clarification of Question by varinewu-ga on 25 Jun 2003 09:38 PDT

Wow, thanks everyone, particularly thx1138-ga. It makes me somewhat
reassured not being the only one confunded by a seemingly simple
question.

Well, I think thx1138-ga is right, the answer will probably vary on
the context and who you ask.  For what it is worth, title 7 of USC
defines "Agricultural Products" as "agricultural, horticultural,
viticultural, and dairy products, livestock and the products thereof,
the products of poultry and bee raising, the edible products of
forestry, and any and all products raised or produced on farms and
processed or manufactured products thereof, transported or intended to
be transported in interstate and/or foreign commerce."

 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/7/451.html

I guess lumber/timber is not edible!  But in Ohio Agricultural
Co-operative law, it states that Agricultural products is defined as
including "horticultural, viticultural, forestry, dairy, livestock,
poultry, bee and farm products", without any reference to being
edible!!

Confusion.

My take right now is that if we go with federal law, timber is an
agricultural product to woodpeckers, but not, say...to me.  I prefer
peppercorn crusted tuna, lightly seared.

I will close the question in a few hours, unless anyone else wants to
take a stab at it.

---

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 25 Jun 2003 09:46 PDT

varinewu,

Instead of closing the question (which will have the result that no
one will receive any payment), you might want to consider asking
thx1138-ga to post his results as an answer. You can reduce the price
of the question to whatever amount you think his research is worth.

This is not obligatory, of course. It's just a suggestion.

A disadvantage that arises when a customer closes a question is that
no further comments can be posted to that question. If a question is
answered, comments can still be made in perpetuity, and useful
information may continue to be posted for free.

~pinkfreud

---

Request for Question Clarification by thx1138-ga on 25 Jun 2003 09:53 PDT

Hello again varinewu!

Still nothing conclusive but I think (in conflict with my esteemed
colleague techtor-ga :) I would veer towards lumber as being an
agricultural product, although I have nothing really solid to back
this up, and there is circumstantial evidence pointing the other way.

Anyway, here are some other references I have found.

From Mississippi state university:
"In 1996, timber was ranked as the second leading agricultural crop in
Mississippi, next to poultry, which was valued at about $1.3 billion"
http://msucares.com/forestry/economics/rank.html

From the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency
"The list of agricultural products includes: 
Field crops 
Fruits Vegetables 
Horticultural specialties 
Cattle and poultry 
Timber and wood products 
Aquatic plants and animals 
Products derived from any of the above categories"
http://www.pheaa.org/loanforgiveness/Agriculture_Education_Loan_Forgiveness_Program.shtml

"Louisiana agricultural crops include sugarcane, strawberries, sweet
potatoes, rice, cotton, corn, potatoes, soybeans, citrus fruits,
pecans, perique tobacco and Lumber."
http://www.subr.edu/firewatershedworkshop/la_btr_info.html

"Perry's largest agricultural crops include peaches, pecans, cotton,
and timber."
http://www.fmca.com/conventions/2002perry/tours.asp

"Since agricultural crops are not subject to an excise tax, Christmas
trees and short-rotation hardwoods have been exempted from timber
excise tax."
http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Reports/2000/Tax_Exemptions_2000/timber.htm?noframes

"The Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) defines prime
agricultural land as“land that has the best combination of physical
and chemical characteristics forproducing food, feed, fiber, forage,
oilseed, livestock, timber, and other agricultural crops"
http://www.efsec.wa.gov/bpcogen/bpasc/asc/3.5Agriculture4-28-03.pdf

"Major agricultural crops are catfish, timber and beef cattle."
http://www.aces.edu/Greene/

Best regards

THX1138

---

Clarification of Question by varinewu-ga on 25 Jun 2003 10:54 PDT

pinkfreud-ga, you are quite right.

This is the first question I have posed on google answer, and I am not
familiar with the way it works.  thx1138-ga has done a tremendous
amount of research on this topic, especially in light of his latest
posting.  It is only fair that he should receive payment.

The lack of a definitive answer, I think, is due there not being one! 
thx1138-ga's latest posting did provide good guidance though.  Thank
you.

thx1138, please combine the two postings and post it as an answer.  If
anyone else has any comments on this issue, I would love to hear it.

Just out of curiosity..who would be the ultimate authority on this
topic?  Who can pronounce "Timber/lumber is/is not an agricultural
product" and that will be that?  the supreme court? the head of USDA?

Hello again varinewu, and thank you for requesting I post my research
as an answer.

As to who will pronounce whether or not timber/lumber is/is not an
agricultural
product, well I wouldn't be surprised if all the governmental
departments made their own definitions with no two being the same,
thereby adding to the confusion.
Seriously though, I think it would be up to the USDA (United States
Department of Agriculture)http://www.usda.gov/ I have in fact e-mailed
Ann M. Veneman who is the secretary of the USDA indicating your
question here on Google Answers and asked her for clarification on the
matter.  I will of course post any reply I receive here, for you to
read.

Very best regards

THX1138


The problem is that different states have different interpretations,
some consider timber/lumber to be an agricultural product and some do
not.  Even at a federal level there seems to be some confusion.  Have
a look at the research I did.
 
First of all let's try to define exactly what lumber is. According to
most dictionaries lumber is "the wood of trees cut and prepared for
use as building material" see http://www.onelook.com/?w=lumber&ls=a
 
and:  
"LUMBER:  
Any wood product that has been processed by a sawmill and plaining
mill. Lumber is defined as wood that has not been processed further
than what is done by a standard saw and plaining mill."
http://www.atkinsteam.com/glossary/construction/L.html  
 
and "TIMBER" 
"Timber is a term used to describe clusters of trees. It is also used
to describe wood throughout its processing from the time it is cut
down to the time it is used as a structural material."
 
BUT: 
"TIMBER LUMBER: 
Any lumber that is 5 inches or more in dimension. This includes beams,
posts and girders."
http://www.atkinsteam.com/glossary/construction/index.htm 
 
 
According to "The Alaska Legal Resource Center"  
"(1) "agricultural products" includes dairy products, timber and
lumber, and products manufactured in the state from timber and
lumber;"
http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/Statutes/Title36/Chapter15/Section050.htm
 
================================================  
 
But in Hawaii:  
Although forestry is an agricultural activity, timber and lumber are
not included in the definition of "agricultural products" in State
law, and thus are not covered by existing agricultural theft statutes.
The purpose of this proposal is to have timber and lumber included
proposal is to have timber and lumber included thus afforded the same
protection as other commodities.
http://www.hfbf.org/Newsletter_files/HFBF_11_02.pdf  
 
================================================  
 
The federal government seems to classify lumber as an agricultural
product:
 
 
"Following is a list of the major Harmonized System product categories
for agricultural products."
 
"Chapter 44 - Wood and Articles of Wood; Wood Charcoal  
 
4401 FUEL WOOD, WOOD WASTE  
4402 WOOD CHARCOAL  
4403 WOOD IN THE ROUGH, WHETHER OR NOT STRIPPED OF BARK  
4404 HOOPWOOD; SPLIT POLES; PILES PICKETS AND STAKES.  
4405 WOOD WOOL; WOOD FLOUR.  
4406 RAILWAY OR TRAMWAY CROSS-TIES  
4407 WOOD SAWN OR CHIPPED LENGTWISE, SLICED OR PEELED.  
4408 VENEER SHEETS AND SHEETS FOR PLYWOOD.  
4409 WOOD CONTINUOUSLY SHAPED  
4410 PARTICLE BOARD AND SIMILAR BOARD OF WOOD.  
4411 FIBREBOARD OF WOOD OR OTHER LIGNEOUS MATERIALS.  
4412 PLYWOOD, VENEERED PANELS AND SIMILAR WOOD.  
4413 DENSIFIED WOOD, IN BLOCKS, PLATES, STRIPS.  
4414 WOODEN FRAMES FOR PAINTINGS, PHOTOGRAPHS.  
4415 PACKING CASES, BOXES, CRATES, DRUMS ETC. OF WOOD  
4416 CASKS, BARRELS, VATS, TUBS AND OTHER COOPERS' PRODUCTS.  
4417 TOOLS, TOOL BODIES, TOOL HANDLES, BROOM OR BRUSH BODIES.  
4418 BUILDERS' JOINERY AND CARPENTRY OF WOOD.  
4419 TABLEWARE AND KITCHENWARE, OF WOOD.  
4420 WOOD MARQUETRY AND INLAID WOOD.  
4421 OTHER ARTICLES OF WOOD."  
http://ffas.usda.gov/itp/us-tariff-sch.html  
 
Also:  
"U.S. EXPORTS OF AGRICULTURAL, FISH & FORESTRY PRODUCTS TO TRINIDAD
AND TOBAGO"
"HARDWOOD LUMBER......................."  
"SOFTWOOD AND TREATED LUMBER..........."  
http://www.cbato.fas.usda.gov/Trade%20Mission/Trinidad.htm  
 
But then they are separated here:  
"VALUE OF TIMBER AND AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS IN THE UNITED STATES, 1991"
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1996/mckee96a.pdf 

From Mississippi state university: 
"In 1996, timber was ranked as the second leading agricultural crop in
Mississippi, next to poultry, which was valued at about $1.3 billion"
http://msucares.com/forestry/economics/rank.html 
 
From the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency 
"The list of agricultural products includes:  
Field crops  
Fruits Vegetables  
Horticultural specialties  
Cattle and poultry  
Timber and wood products  
Aquatic plants and animals  
Products derived from any of the above categories" 
http://www.pheaa.org/loanforgiveness/Agriculture_Education_Loan_Forgiveness_Program.shtml
 
"Louisiana agricultural crops include sugarcane, strawberries, sweet
potatoes, rice, cotton, corn, potatoes, soybeans, citrus fruits,
pecans, perique tobacco and Lumber."
http://www.subr.edu/firewatershedworkshop/la_btr_info.html 
 
"Perry's largest agricultural crops include peaches, pecans, cotton,
and timber."
http://www.fmca.com/conventions/2002perry/tours.asp 
 
"Since agricultural crops are not subject to an excise tax, Christmas
trees and short-rotation hardwoods have been exempted from timber
excise tax."
http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Reports/2000/Tax_Exemptions_2000/timber.htm?noframes
 
"The Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) defines prime
agricultural land as“land that has the best combination of physical
and chemical characteristics forproducing food, feed, fiber, forage,
oilseed, livestock, timber, and other agricultural crops"
http://www.efsec.wa.gov/bpcogen/bpasc/asc/3.5Agriculture4-28-03.pdf 
 
"Major agricultural crops are catfish, timber and beef cattle." 
http://www.aces.edu/Greene/

Search strategy included:
"agricultural product" "lumber is"
://www.google.com/search?hl=pt&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=+%22agricultural+product%22+%22lumber+is%22&lr=

---

Clarification of Answer by thx1138-ga on 07 Nov 2003 13:31 PST

Hello again varinewu.

I realise that it has been some time since I answered your question,
but believe it or not I have just received an email from the US
Government! With a copy of the "Agricultural Marketing Act of 1946"
and it contains this passage:
"Sec. 207. (7 U.S.C 1626) - Definitions
When used in this chapter, the term "agricultural products" includes
agricultural, horticultural, viticultural, and dairy products,
livestock and poultry, bees, forest products"
as lumber is a forest product I think that just about wraps it up,
once and for all!

Very best regards

THX1138

I think one thing that was missed was that the field of knowledge on
growing trees is called silviculture.