Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: manganism and answer to digsalot-ga ( No Answer,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: manganism and answer to digsalot-ga
Category: Health
Asked by: petroc-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 28 Jun 2003 17:40 PDT
Expires: 28 Jul 2003 17:40 PDT
Question ID: 222989
i was asked for opinion by digsalot-ga regarding manganism poison and
combat in ww2.
before i could answer the questions regarding high explosives etc, i
saw that
 an opinion was rendered ,by a researcher discounting the theory. 
however i will continue to answer the questions.  let's start with the
ardennes, i was there.  these were the conditions asked, in belted
ammunition every [depending on the articipher} every 5th or 10th was a
tracer.  as a gunner 57mm antitank gunner, doubling on bazooka  we
used  armor piercing, high explosive  and white phosphorus  w.p also
came in cannisters as grenades.  think of all the expended artillery
and tank fire.added.  the area of concentration ,sections of belgium
and luxumberg. weather conditions cold to freezing with low cloud
cover, kept us in a virtual chemical fog.  you asked about
parachute.flares,  both sides dropped like clock work.  after this and
a rest. in varying degrees of lesser exposure,  we reached the elbe
river. during this time many of us experienced gross heartburn.  and
no tums. i too am planning to question the v.a. for my symptoms are
more like manganism than outright p d    advise  petroc-ga
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: manganism and answer to digsalot-ga
From: digsalot-ga on 28 Jun 2003 20:17 PDT
 
I am posting this as a comment due to the fact there is no definitive
answer to your question as of yet and unless I can come up with such a
definitive answer, I won't take the money.  The studies are still
going on and are expanding into some interesting directions such as
the possibility mad cow disease is a form of manganism as well as
studies into delayed onset of symptoms in spite of official claims
otherwise.

Some of the information below may lead you into new directions on your
quest.

Actually redhoss-ga did a great job in the comment and went right to
the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry for the
information provided.   The letter recieved from Dr. Risher and
published as part of the comment is about as authoritive as you can
get (as far as the 'official' line goes).

Our group has worked with and been in contact with ATSDR in the past
and as of now, the statement made in his letter is the official stand
on the matter.

There is one thing the Dr. neglected in his letter however.  He states
manganese is used to strengthen metals and there he drops it.

However, manganese is also used in explosive compounds in the form of
a manganes oxide, dimangane heptoxide [Mn2O7]  It is an explosive dark
metallic greenish-brown oil which evaporates at a temperature of
40-50°C.  Today compounds using dimangane heptoxide are mostly used in
the fireworks industry, but tracer shells, parachute flares, etc are
also considered pyrotechnics as well as military devices.  Who knows
exactly what was in the tracer and flare mixtures of 50+ years ago
without possibly going to Pentagon and military sources.  And would
they really tell us?  Manganese oxides have been implicated in
manganism.

There are also studies related to mad cow disease as a bovine form a
manganism.  And in fact the studies are fairly conclusive, at least as
far as Cambridge University is concerned.  You will also find that
those studies are largely being ignored.  In fact, many studies about
the problem are largely being ignored if they don't fit with official
pronouncements.

You may be intersted in this little article:
"Their negligent inaction confirms this suspicion !! Furthermore,
their deliberate failiure to address the true cause of BSE  - since
Cambridge
University studies in 2000 showed that manganese can cause the prion
protein to transform into its BSE causing form - is equally
negligent." - - quote from the article. -
http://www.warmwell.com/may28purdey.html

From another report about the Cambridge University studies:
"Dr Brown and his team have discovered that, to perform this
protective role, healthy prion protein needs to be bound to copper
atoms. If, instead, it is exposed to manganese, the prion protein
changes - giving the protein some of the characteristics of the rogue
protein that causes BSE and vCJD." - - quote from the News Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2000/10/29/nbse229.xml

Dr. Risher also states in his letter that any symptoms would have
shown up within a short time after exposure.  However, there are many
who would disagree with that statement as follows:
"One explanation for delayed development of symptoms holds that
symptoms develop only with aging as the normal attrition of neurons
unmasks underlying damage. This would explain a long latent period
between significant Mn exposures and development of those symptoms
which depend on neuronal decline." - - quote from "manganese" -
http://www.johnsonfdn.org/conferences/precautionary/schet.html

I'm sorry I can't give the definitive answer you want.  However the
fact that manganese is used in explosives as well as strengthing metal
may or may not mean manganese was an element in your theater of war. 
Though from the pyrotechnic end of it with tracers, flares, etc, there
is a possibility.

If I find anything else which may be of help, I will post it here in
comments.  I do have a personal reason to keep looking.  We are trying
to find the link between my late father's Parkinsens and the war.  He
also was in the Ardennes and was injured when his tank was blown off a
bridge while crossing the Ruhr.  Though that has nothing to do with
what we are discussing.

Though it is truly amazing how many service records have been "lost"
by the authorities when any claim for benefits is made.

Cheers
digs
Subject: Re: manganism and answer to digsalot-ga
From: redhoss-ga on 29 Jun 2003 04:57 PDT
 
I am very sorry that you took the information that I posted to mean
that I didn't support your investigation. It was only intended to give
you other sources to contact and places to look. I know that our
government tends to cover up information in cases like your's and wish
you the best of luck in your research.

Redhoss

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy