Our business operates with several internet domain names.  We use a
good local internet service provider but it is on the expensive side. 
Website programming and development is handled by excellent
contractors in New Delhi, India, with whom we communicate by email. 
Our current office server is Microsoft based (purchased very cheaply
through reference from a microsoft employee).  One of our in-office
employees is reasonably competent on computer matters, but is not an
expert, and our outside local technical support is provided at a rate
of $100 per hour.

The question is:  How can we implement a system to permanently operate
our IT/Computer services at the lowest ongoing cost possible, with
reasonable reliability and backup.  We do not need extremely high
security but obviously require access to technical support and
services.  Note we have part of the puzzle solved; the contractors in
India can work very well both on coding custom stuff and
upgrading/fixing many problems.  But we cannot rely on our Microsoft
employee for ongoing savings on software, so the argument grows in
favour of a switch to a linux structure.  Obviously, ideally part of
the solution requires access to a 'hands on' person who can come to
our office in Canada, although this need to be only a limited extent.

My objective is to bring our IT costs to a level at 1 1/10th that of
'normal' corporate operations, with 95% reliability.  The response
should offer a step-by-step strategy to achieve these objectives. 
Obviously, if it is good, will tip generously because the savings over
time will be far greater than the question cost!

---

Request for Question Clarification by kyrie26-ga on 12 Jul 2003 20:48 PDT

Hi marbuck-ga,

Some questions for you :

- What are the services you are currently using from your ISP? 
- Who does web hosting for your "several internet domain names" and
what are you currently paying? Who is your domain name registration
host (ie. networksolutions.com, register.com)?
- Is email hosted on your office server? What server are you using for
email?
- What desktop software are your employees using (ie. for email)?
- What kind of setup do you currently have at your office? I.e. how
many computers, what OS, what kind of network architecture, any file
servers, firewall, etc?
- What kind of growth do you foresee in your tech operations/use for
the long term? What kind of growth for the company overall? Per year?
- If you could quantify it, what would be the annual amount you are
willing to spend on IT support services to keep your tech setup
running smoothly? This figure should not include investment in
physical assets, just services.


Many thanks in advance,

kyrie26-ga

---

Clarification of Question by marbuck-ga on 12 Jul 2003 22:17 PDT

What are the services you are currently using from your ISP?  
They are providing website hosting, and are arranging domain/email
registrations (currently for about eight sites; we expect this will
increase to 20 or more in the next year.
- Who does web hosting for your "several internet domain names" and
what are you currently paying? Who is your domain name registration
host (ie. networksolutions.com, register.com)?
Our ISP, (Magma.ca), I believe uses Tucows.net as the registration
host. Fees I believe are about $50CDN per year per domain, plus a
setup fee of $50 (which the service provider waived recently when I
ordered a few more domains)
- Is email hosted on your office server? What server are you using for
email?
Email is hosted currently by our ISP.  
- What desktop software are your employees using (ie. for email)? 
Microsoft office (outlook).  This was very inexpensive when we had
access to the Microsoft (employee) store -- full professional versions
of Office were available for $80US, but we cannot rely on this source
for the future.
- What desktop software are your employees using (ie. for email)? 
- What kind of setup do you currently have at your office? I.e. how
many computers, what OS, what kind of network architecture, any file
servers, firewall, etc?
We currently have about 8 computers.  We are using Microsoft Windows
Server (purchased again very cheaply) with a 10 seat license.  I don't
believe we have any special firewall protections.  The network is
quite simple at present.
- What kind of growth do you foresee in your tech operations/use for
the long term? What kind of growth for the company overall? Per year?
We may experience fairly substantial and rapid growth.  I envisage
that soon we will want more 'remote access' to our server from
employees at various locations in the U.S., and from our technical
service providers in New Delhi.  (They are currently handling web
design/set up, bulk data entry and I expect will also handle
customized programming for our needs.)  The company could well double
in size (from about $1.5 million to $3.0 million) in sales in the
upcoming year, and the growth may be even more rapid as the next year
ends (we have been able to reduce capital costs for market
development/expansion to a very low level -- this question reflects my
objective to continue to hammer down costs in the IT field.)
- If you could quantify it, what would be the annual amount you are
willing to spend on IT support services to keep your tech setup
running smoothly? This figure should not include investment in
physical assets, just services.
That is a difficult question to answer.  I'm sure we are already well
below industry norms, but I wish it to be even lower.  At some point,
we may be justified in hiring a full or part time person to oversee
these issues, but I have no idea of the cost.

One way to phrase my thoughts here is to compare IT costs to airline
costs.  Airlines have special super-high rates for business travel
(like $1800 CDN for day trips in a regional jet from Ottawa to
Washington).  I learned how to turn the airline frequent flier program
on its head and achieved my 90% cost reduction while maintaining all
the necessary flexibility for last minute bookings, no saturday
stayovers, and so on).  A lot of BtoB costs are overpriced ripoffs,
based on the fact that "the company is paying" the bills.  I wish to
manage IT expenses as frugally as our travel costs -- not denying the
essential quality, security and reliability for business operations,
but not paying 'top dollar' to btob vendors.

---

Request for Question Clarification by kyrie26-ga on 12 Jul 2003 23:56 PDT

Hi again marbuck-ga,

Thanks for your clarification. Please bear with me while I try to get
a better understanding of your situation. I have some more questions
for you :


- The server at your office is being used only for internet
connectivity, correct? Would you be willing to switch to a Linux
server for this purpose?

- How much are you currently paying for Web hosting?

- Are you willing to switch to another Web hosting provider if you can
get the same service(s) for a cheaper rate? This entails migrating
your Web sites over.

- Are you willing to go with an arrangement where you have a separate
ISP that handles your domain name registration and another one that
handles your domain name Web hosting, if these separate options are
collectively cheaper than one ISP that does both?

- You mentioned "I envisage that soon we will want more 'remote
access' to our server". Can you elaborate? Which server? Are you
talking about the office server where you can access network files
securely, or are you talking about logging in to a Web-based intranet?

- Are you using Microsoft Office at your workplace? Would you like to
continue this, or go for cheaper alternatives? For example, we can
replace Outlook with a free top-notch alternative, and you only need
to purchase the bare essentials - i.e. Word, Excel, separately. Do you
want to consider this?

- Where are you based? Would you like me to find you more
cost-effective (compared to $100/hr) outsourced local tech support?

- If you can think of any other areas where you would like to apply
cost reduction, please elaborate.

- Am I on the right track based on the type of questions I am asking?


Thank you in advance!


Regards,

kyrie26-ga

---

Clarification of Question by marbuck-ga on 13 Jul 2003 04:03 PDT

- The server at your office is being used only for internet
connectivity, correct? Would you be willing to switch to a Linux
server for this purpose?
I'm not sure, (not being technically astute) but believe the server
also links the computers within our internal office network.  However,
we would be willing to switch to Linux IF it is reliable and the
necessary documentation and procedures are explained.
 
- How much are you currently paying for Web hosting? 
 Our current monthly fees right now are about $180 CDN, but I suspect
charges will rise as we add more email points, domains and server
storage capacity increases.
- Are you willing to switch to another Web hosting provider if you can
get the same service(s) for a cheaper rate? This entails migrating
your Web sites over.
Yes, again, if the procedure is relatively seamless and clear
instructions and procedures are provided to prevent disruption of
business operations.  (One reason for making this google answers
question now is I realize these changes may be harder to execute later
than now).
- Are you willing to go with an arrangement where you have a separate
ISP that handles your domain name registration and another one that
handles your domain name Web hosting, if these separate options are
collectively cheaper than one ISP that does both?
Yes, again, if the 'cost'of maintaining the two systems is not greater
than the purported savings.
 
- You mentioned "I envisage that soon we will want more 'remote
access' to our server". Can you elaborate? Which server? Are you
talking about the office server where you can access network files
securely, or are you talking about logging in to a Web-based intranet?
Hmmm, perhaps both.  For certain 'high level' tasks, for example,
updating our circulation database, the former may apply.  However, we
also envisage that a growing number of remotely based employees in
cities across North America will need a simple interface to 'head
office'.  That, I think would be best through the web Intranet
approach.
 
- Are you using Microsoft Office at your workplace? Would you like to
continue this, or go for cheaper alternatives? For example, we can
replace Outlook with a free top-notch alternative, and you only need
to purchase the bare essentials - i.e. Word, Excel, separately. Do you
want to consider this?
We are currently using Microsoft Office in the workplace.  It is
certainly simple and easy to use (and fits standard processes), and of
course our existing licenses are very cheap.  But ultimately, this is
likely to be a 'trap' and increasingly expensive.  If we are to break
away from Office, we will need a clear procedure to minimize
disruption and of course we must be able to receive files and
information from clients and contractors who may send them in office
attachments.
 
- Where are you based? Would you like me to find you more
cost-effective (compared to $100/hr) outsourced local tech support?
We are in Ottawa Canada.  Yes, I think this is an essential part of
the cost savings package, especially if we are to make the significant
changes that I think will be required.
 
- If you can think of any other areas where you would like to apply
cost reduction, please elaborate.
One important caveat in determining a cost reduction strategy is to be
wary of false economy (and this is the one that the sales reps for the
'conventional' approaches will use, with much validity).  If company
management is spending hours and hours worrying about getting a domain
registered, for example, and having to deal directly with employee
complaints on the topic, then we've wasted far more than the cost of
the $50 or $100 fee to the ISP, which offers as part of the package
both 24 hour tech support and an easy-to-use online interface for
updates and changes.  Similarly, if we engage in deals that are
unreliable or unsustainable, we will not be better off.

(But the airline anology comes to the rescue here -- the airlines have
changed their Frequent Flier programs to close loopholes, etc, but we
continue to find savings through the arrival of new discount carriers
and even an unofficial network of friends who provide guidance in
airline rule workarounds.  It has been very worthwhile for me to
persue my cost reduction 'hobby' as business travel costs (with
flexibility) continue to be absurdly low while our family flies
business class for virtually nothing on our vacations!
 
- Am I on the right track based on the type of questions I am asking?
Yes, I think the key here will be to find a 'link' to a live
consultant/support person who will either require few hours (at top
dollar, even) to help guide us along the way, or (for ongoing support)
will be very inexpensive.

---

Request for Question Clarification by kyrie26-ga on 13 Jul 2003 10:21 PDT

Hi marbuck-ga,

A formal answer is just around the corner. As soon as I get some info
from an ISP, I will post it. In the meantime, a few more questions :


- With regard to the websites your company owns, are these Web
applications (i.e. database-enabled), or are they just simple websites
for presence purposes?

- If they are Web applications, do you know what kind of server
technologies they use? Examples would be PHP, ColdFusion, JSP for
server-side Web scripting, and MySQL, Oracle or MS SQL Server for
database.

- Which software in the Microsoft Office suite does your company use?
Typically, Word and Excel are the necessities. Would you be willing to
forego the Office suite in favor of only these two products?


I have most of the information ready and will be posting your full
answer very soon. I fully understand your "false economy" caveat, and
rest assured that my answer will take this into account. I totally
agree, we can cut costs to a certain point but beyond it, the hassles
or work involved may outweigh the monetary cost savings. I believe
that my solution(s) will optimize cost savings without overstepping
this limit.


Thanks,

kyrie26-ga

---

Clarification of Question by marbuck-ga on 14 Jul 2003 07:00 PDT

To answer your further questions:

We are using applications rather than just 'window dressing' on the
website.  I am not familiar with the details.  At present, the way
this is handled is the software guys in Delhi have technical access
passwords with our ISP and, with this access, go on their server to
make the necessary adjustments.

I believe we can get by with word and excel.  We certainly don't use
powerpoint nor access.  Note however, we are using third party
software for crucial business functions that are designed to work on a
microsoft windows base. While these functions do not directly relate
to our website, they may become crucial with relation to the company
'intranet' where we will need to provide remote access for distantly
located employees. We must be very careful to ensure compatibility
here or the whole thing won't work.

Marbuck-ga,


Thank you for your question. After some legwork I believe I have a
good solution for you. I will cover several angles where you can cut
IT costs in your company, namely, Web/domain hosting, network server,
productivity software and tech support. Without further ado, let's
jump in :



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 A. Web/domain hosting
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


I have found you an extremely reliable and cost-effective Web host,
who will help you migrate your websites and domains over. They are
Green Ghost Web Hosting Company.


Since December, I have been using Green Ghost for Web hosting. They
are based in BC, Canada, and their website is located at
http://www.greenghost.biz . From my experience with ISPs, Green Ghost
has been a tremendous value for money - at the time when I was
surveying the market, I found their prices to be among the lowest. And
to top it off, customer service is top-notch. When I first set up my
website with them, Chris Clay, one of the owners, saw to my every
request and concern, and helped with my setup. My website has been
running extremely smoothly since it was set up. If you like, you can
visit it at http://www.jobsvolution.ca .


Price-wise, their top-of-the-line Platinum account is at $99.95
(Canadian) per month, which beats your current $180. I contacted Chris
regarding your situation, and he recommends the Reseller Package, even
cheaper. Here is a snippet from his email :


*-----
Yes, certainly. The transition could be done very smoothly. Note that
it may
be cheaper for them to sign up for a single Reseller package - see
http://greenghost.biz/hosting_reseller.php . They would have a single
control panel to manage all their domains.
*-----


The Reseller Package covers 10 domains, and costs only $124.95/mo
Canadian. That's even less than the rate for 1 of your websites. This
package is packed with features and capabilities, and is very easily
expandable too.


In addition, they can host your domain name for as low as US$14.95 per
year - see http://greenghost.biz/domain.php . It includes 24/7
toll-free tech support. Compare that to your current $50CDN per year.


He has enthusiastically agreed to help your company to migrate your
websites over, via step-by-step telephone and email support. His
contact information is as follows :


Chris Clay, Managing Partner
Green Ghost Internet Services
Ph: 250.381.3501
Fx: 250.380.9015
Toll free: 1.866.285.0842
cclay@greenghost.biz
www.greenghost.biz


If you do contact him, please let him know that you were referred
through Gene, a Google Answers Researcher, and he'll know who you're
talking about.


It shouldn't be too difficult to get your Delhi team to coordinate
with Chris on this transfer process.


Based on my personal experience, I am confident that should you decide
to make the switch over, you'll have nothing to lose and everything to
gain. Customer service is superb, and quality of ongoing service is
excellent. Biggest bang for your buck.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 B. Network server
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


It looks like your "network server" is merely being used as your
Internet connection gateway. Since Windows has peer-to-peer
networking, there is no real need for a "central" server to coordinate
this. Your network setup is most likely a typical simple configuration
where all the PCs connect to a central hub/switch, which is hooked up
to the Internet gateway (currently your Windows server). You could
totally replace this server with a Linux box to do the same thing. And
not worry about having to follow up on ongoing Windows security
patches etc. The revised Linux setup will still allow for future
expansion without lack of capability.


You mentioned an Intranet application, but it sounds like that is
still somewhere down the road. In most cases, I would still recommend
the Web-based intranet approach, where you have a remotely hosted
application that is securely accessibile only by your employees. This
would negate the need for an in-house server. In fact, you save costs
by remotely hosting your intranet, because there will be other costs
associated with running your own office server for this, namely
security, backup, maintenance and etc, which an ISP would handle more
cost-effectively.


And if you need file and print services, there's Samba
(http://www.samba.org/). By running Samba on a Linux server, the Linux
administrator can provide seamless file and print services to Windows
clients without paying Microsoft for the privilege.


I recommend making the switch to Linux if ongoing Microsoft license
fees are an issue, as I'm sure it will be. It will be more
cost-effective to pay your outsourced tech support to do this once,
and enjoy the subsequent cost savings.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 C. Productivity software
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


A quick search on www.froogle.com shows me some low prices on Word and
Excel :


Microsoft Word 2002 (Full Version OEM)
$23.95
http://store.yahoo.com/dirtcheapsoftware/micwor20oemc.html


Microsoft Excel 2002  
$109.49   
http://www.chumbo.com/info.asp?s=659556640330&ptr=fg


Together, this is less than half the cost of an Office bundle. For the
long term, you might like to take this approach since you only need
these two items in the suite.


Also, I highly recommend replacing Outlook with Eudora. The full
program is offered as a free download, and the only catch is that it
is ad-sponsored. However, in actual practice, this has not been a
problem at all, as the ads are tucked away in a corner, and are
tasteful. As an email client, Eudora is packed with features and is
highly configurable. Not only that, it is extremely stable, and not
susceptible to the common security holes of Outlook. Have a go at it
at : http://www.eudora.com/ .



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 D. Tech support
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


I have found some companies in the Ottawa area that do outsourced tech
support. You might like to contact them and "try them out" to see if
you can get more bang for your buck in the tech support area. Don't
underestimate the smaller players, they are cheaper because they don't
have overheads, and just as good :



Total Support - Information Technology Services in Montreal, Ottawa
and Toronto (GTA)
http://www.totalsupport.ca



The IT Department, Inc.
http://www.itdepartment.com/



Geeks In Black
http://www.geeksinblack.com



Uriah McCann Computer & Networking Consultant
http://members.rogers.com/umccann/consultant/



Phenomenal Solutions
http://www.phenomenalsolutions.com



Mandalay Tech
http://www.mandalaytech.ca/




Google search terms :


technical OR tech support OR "help desk" ottawa



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+



I hope this has been a satisfactory answer! If anything is unclear or
requires further elaboration, please do not hesitate to post a Request
For Clarification and I would be glad to help. 

I wish you all the best in your business and cost reduction efforts.



Regards,


kyrie26-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by marbuck-ga on 15 Jul 2003 15:25 PDT

This is a very useful answer.  I have followed up with the web hoster
recommended and found a 50% savings, assuming I switch over at the end
of the annual fee period at my current ISP.  Obviously this answer
itself more than pays for the question.

The issues about the in-house service and local technical support are
more challenging.  I'm not sure how to best determine value/quality
from the references provided and also the optimal time/procedure to
switch over to Linux.  (All existing Microsoft licenses are in good
order, so a change might not be profitable right away).  The challenge
here is to find an inexpensive local consultant who can, seeing our
current configuration, will recommend when/how to make the switch.

---

Clarification of Answer by kyrie26-ga on 15 Jul 2003 16:11 PDT

Marbuck-ga,
 
I'm glad to hear that you've contacted Green Ghost and that the
savings to be made are pretty substantial.

With regard to the other issues :

On the Linux switchover - perhaps the best time for this is when your
Windows server needs an upgrade, and you'd rather skip the licensing
fee. If you can foresee this and plan ahead such that there is no
network outage, then it would be the best approach.

On finding a good local consultant, what I would recommend is to call
them up, ask them for their advice on, say, the switchover issue, and
see what they say. You can generally tell how competent they are from
their communication, and your initial dealings with them would be a
sign of their level of customer service. Price can of course be
objectively determined by asking them.

From my knowledge, $100 per hour for the Ottawa area is still pretty
steep. You could halve that rate and still get pretty competent tech
support.

Let me know if there is any specific area(s) that you would like help
or further research into.

Thanks!


kyrie26-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by marbuck-ga on 15 Jul 2003 17:06 PDT

Thanks for this clarification.  As a reminder of the importance of not
rushing to conclusions, the ISP recommended earlier reviewed things
carefully and then submitted a revised quote based on a true 'apples
to apples' comparison -- the savings is more like $200 CDN rather than
$1200.  (He did propose an alternative approach, but the problem is I
don't think this would be compatible with the back end software
designed for our sites, so extra costs would be required on the
programming side.)
The process of cost-savings in the IT area is never simple and
patience is in order.  I will give this a couple of days before
closing the question.  Note I am quite happy with the work of the
researcher here -- I did not expect "instant" solutions, but a broader
picture of how to move forward.

---

Clarification of Answer by kyrie26-ga on 15 Jul 2003 17:33 PDT

Hi marbuck-ga,

Hmm... sorry to hear about this revised quote. Was there some special
server-side installation that is unique to your websites? If you would
like a third opinion or any more ideas or alternatives to this issue,
just let me know and I will do my best to help.


Regards,

kyrie26-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by marbuck-ga on 15 Jul 2003 18:02 PDT

Your recommended ISP has emailed me and now concludes that the savings
are not great enough for the switch. I appreciate his honesty.
It is hard to show our existing website software situaton on
answers.google, given the obvious (and reasonable) restrictions on
this site.  Suffice to say it is both simple and fairly
elegant--through an administrative console, we can update, edit and
revise features appropriate to one website or several related ones,
all without significant technical knowledge.  In Canada, I think it
would have been a $10 to 20K job, the total price came to about $1500
CDN  when the East Indians were done.  I don't feel like replacing it
now because it is scaleable as we add more sites and
improvements/enhancements are easy and inexpensive to add on.  Even if
I don't switch sites, the exercise is still worthile if only in
validating the pricing of my current provider.

---

Clarification of Answer by kyrie26-ga on 27 Jul 2003 15:40 PDT

Hi marbuck,

I did a quick scan but was not able to find you any cheaper Web host,
or at least any that may be worth the trouble in switching over,
especially considering the complexity of your setup, from the sounds
of it.

It looks like your India outsourcing solution is the way to go. I had
a discussion with a technology colleague of mine and he said that this
is the general direction of the industry. So, suffice to say that you
are "optimized" in this area, and glad to know that this exercise has
been useful in determining that.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to provide a more optimized solution as you
were probably expecting. I hope that the other proposed solutions are
helpful. If you can think of any other area that I can help, do not
hesitate to let me know.

Otherwise, it looks like we may conclude this question. Thanks for
your time and cooperation!


Regards,

kyrie26-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by marbuck-ga on 27 Jul 2003 19:46 PDT

I have not closed this question because I asked my administrative
manager to check the alternative 'on site' support services referenced
in the answer.  She I believe has done this -- while I took a week's
vacation.  I should have further information and be better prepared to
close the file within a day or two.

---

Clarification of Answer by kyrie26-ga on 11 Sep 2003 17:12 PDT

Marbuck,

I meant to post this earlier - THANK YOU for the five stars! It was a pleasure.


Cheers,

kyrie26-ga

This was a solidly researched answer -- alas (or perhaps fortunately)
we were not able to quantify any significant savings so far, but this
simply validated that our own cost containment strategy for IT
expenses is valid and effective.  The tip, of course, would have been
much larger if we had found real savings!

Well best solution would be going for an open source system getting an
knowledged LinuX/UniX admin and setting up a

1. An Apache ( www.apache.org ) web server for web services
2. Squid ( www.squid-cache.org ) for Internet proxying
3. OpenOffice.org ( www.openoffice.org ) for Office Productivity
4. KDE ( www.kde.org ) for a usable desktop.

And because all of these are open source it will cost you a good Linux
admin who can install/configure this stuff.