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Q: Frames and Google Search ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   0 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Frames and Google Search
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: skip9801-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 24 Jul 2003 08:12 PDT
Expires: 23 Aug 2003 08:12 PDT
Question ID: 234608
I would like to take the suggestions offered to me - i.e., in order to
get my web site, which uses frames, picked up by google's search
engine, I'll add a META description and META keywords and a NOFRAMES
tags to the site.

My question is, I'm only concerned with getting people to the main
page.  Can I  add these tags to the frameset file only, or would I
need to also add the tags to the files being referenced in the FRAME
NAME commands of the frameset file?

A concern I have is that I want the google search to find the frameset
file - if it finds the other files, the page will be pulled up without
the frame.

Thanks.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Frames and Google Search
Answered By: larre-ga on 24 Jul 2003 11:26 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Thanks for asking!

You can add the META keywords and description to the Frameset file
only. However, this really doesn't provide a Google solution, since
Google uses neither META keywords or description to determine how to
index and/or list a webpage. The Googlebot is also somewhat frame-shy.


GOOGLE AND FRAMES
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Google states their policy toward frames in their Webmaster
Guidelines:

"Your page uses frames. Google supports frames to the extent that it
can. Frames tend to cause problems with search engines, bookmarks,
emailing links and so on, because frames don't fit the conceptual
model of the web (every page corresponds to a single URL). If a user's
query matches the site as a whole, Google returns the frame set. If a
user's query matches an individual page on the site, Google returns
that page. That individual page is not displayed in a frame -- because
there may be no frame set corresponding to that page.

If you are concerned with the description of your site as seen by
search engines, please read "Search Engines and Frames". It describes
the use of the 'NoFrames' tag, which is used to provide alternative
content. If, instead of providing alternative content, you use wording
such as "This site requires the use of frames" or "Upgrade your
browser", then you are excluding both search engines and people who
use browsers with frames turned off. (For example, audio web browsers,
such as those used in automobiles and by the visually impaired,
typically do not deal with frames, which are a visual mechanism.) You
can read about NoFrames in the HTML standard here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/present/frames.html#h-16.4"

Google Information for Webmasters
://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html


GOOGLE AND KEYWORDS
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Recent discussions and analysis of the relationship between META
keywords and Google indexing demonstrate that:

-- META keywords are, for the most part, dead.

-- META keywords are not being read by bots, due to abuse.

-- META keywords are not necessarily harmful, except in terms of code
   bloat.

-- META keywords have no direct influence, either positive or
negative,
   on Google Ranking.

I encourage you to follow this three-page (40 message) discussion at
Webmaster World from the beginning so that you can profit from the
insight of experienced webmasters and those who are extremely
knowledgeable in the art of search engine optimization.

Pages without meta keywords do better in Google?
To use keywords, or not, in Google 
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/12195-2-15.htm

There is no particular -direct- advantage to adding META keywords to
either your framed pages or frameset. On the other hand, there's not
likely any harm, either. I continue to use and recommend META keywords
because many niche directories still use them to classify listings. In
such directories, I want pages to be listed in the proper categories,
since they contribute "votes" to PageRank with their links.


FRAMES OR NOT?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the straightforward statements by Google regarding frame usage,
among professional web developers, the only reason to choose to use
frames vs. not would be for faster display of content pages. Using
frames, the "fixed" elements don't have to be downloaded by the users'
browser over and over, only the "variable" information need be called
from the server. Since there are other, search-engine-friendlier
methods to accomplish the same goal, frames have never enjoyed the
same popularity of usage as non-framed sites.

You've said in this query that you're only concerned about getting
visitors to the main page. In such a case, there is almost no
circumstance that favors the use of frames. Identical layout and
visitor usability can be accomplished through other methods that are
search engine readable. You might consider the benefits inherent in a
no-frames design update.


USING THE <NOFRAMES> TAG TO MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Using the <NOFRAMES> convention -will- help get your current framed
content indexed, however, the <NOFRAMES> tag's primary purpose is to
provide both search engine robots and human visitors with a way to
access the inside pages of the site, without the use of frames. Since
you're most concerned with the single homepage, YOU SHOULD PROVIDE THE
ENTIRE CONTENT OF ALL OTHER FRAMES WITHIN THE <NOFRAMES> TAG ON THAT
FRAMESET PAGE. (Please excuse the "shout", we have limited means for
adding emphasis to particularly vital portions of our Answers in the
current Google Answers format.)

For detailed instructions on the use of the <NOFRAMES> tag, please see
Danny Sullivan's tutorial, "Search Engines and Frames." Sullivan
offers additional background information on search engine behaviors,
as well as specific examples.

Search Engines and Frames
http://www.searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/article.php/2167901


Search Strategies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Google Search Terms:

google frames
google keywords

I also used my personal Bookmarks, and formulated this answer based
upon my own experience as a web developer, working in tandem with
search engine optimization specialists.


Should you have any questions about the information or links provided,
please, feel free to ask.

--- larre
skip9801-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Good answer - lots of detail.

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