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Subject:
No christmas pickles in Germany
Category: Relationships and Society > Cultures Asked by: lijin-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
01 Aug 2003 16:44 PDT
Expires: 31 Aug 2003 16:44 PDT Question ID: 237997 |
I grew up and live in Germany, but I know quite a few people who are U.S. residents. During one of our conversations at christmas time I found out that everybody believes that "hiding the pickle" for Christmas is a German tradition that has been adopted by Americans. Unfortunately, I had never heard of the mysterious pickle before, neither had my all-German friends or neighbors. Of course my American friends were totally frustrated and in disbelief when they found out that they couldn't buy those "original German" pickles at christmas time in Germany. So how can it be that we have a tradition, that every American knows of, but not a single German (apart from those who heard the "tradition" from Americans)? | |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: bobbie7-ga on 01 Aug 2003 17:51 PDT |
This may interest you: The controversial Christmas Pickle - is it German, German-American or just American? A collection of opinions and surmises http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/pickle.htm |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: tlspiegel-ga on 01 Aug 2003 18:39 PDT |
Bobbie found the same link I did, plus I was able to dig this one up for you: http://pomnitz.net/lc/traditions/xmas_pickle2.htm Best regards, tlspiegel |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: tutuzdad-ga on 01 Aug 2003 18:41 PDT |
I'd love to answer your question but it appears that the origin of the tradition is all but forgotten (or in dispute). Since the question cannot be answered, I'll offer this to you as a comment: This is the most detailed account of each of the suspected origins I could find (some bits are fact, and some are legend), none of which can be verified - but, they are all very interesting. "The Christmas Pickle Story" http://pomnitz.net/fr.htm#lc/traditions/xmas_pickle2.htm Regards; tutuzdad-ga |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: tutuzdad-ga on 01 Aug 2003 18:44 PDT |
Wow, tlspiegel! Was that simultaneous or what? Are you related to Radar O'Reilly by chance? :) Dad |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: tlspiegel-ga on 01 Aug 2003 18:55 PDT |
Hi Li Jin, Here's a couple more... Christmas Legends Two http://www.webtol.com/tolxmas/xmas26.html The Medieval tale of the pickle tell of two Spanish boys traveling home from boarding school for the holidays. Weary from travel, they stop at an inn for the night. The inn keeper, a mean and evil man, steals the boys' possessions, and stuffs the boys into a pickle barrel. That evening, St. Nicholas stops in for a rest at the inn, and becomes aware of the boys' plight. He taps the pickle barrel with his staff, and the boys are magically restored. The boys thank St. Nicholas, and continue happily home for Christmas. Through time, this Victorian tradition has been celebrated by hiding a Hand blown glass pickle on the Christmas tree, and whoever finds it on Christmas morning receives a special gift. ***** But most likely it is an Urban Legend! From Snopes Urban Legends 1. Urban Legends Reference Pages: Christmas (Festive Season Superstitions) Superstitions and folk beliefs about Christmas. Origins: Christmas is a holiday steeped in superstition and folk belief. Almost every tradition we unthinkingly observe during the festive season has its... ...have any idea of the whys of our symbols and rituals. We know to erect a Christmas tree, for instance, but we don't know why we're supposed to, other... ...We have to step far back into the past to locate the origins of many of our Christmas customs. In long-ago times when winter snows and cold cloaked the... Tue, 08 Apr 2003 06:50:52 GMT http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/super.htm A little-known German tradition calls for the Christmas pickle to be the last item hung on the tree when parents deck it out on Christmas Eve, long after the little ones are asleep. Come Christmas morning, the sharp-eyed youngster who finds this glass pickle-shaped ornament is entitled to a special present and trades the pickle back to his parents to get it. Best regards, tlspiegel |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: lijin-ga on 01 Aug 2003 19:04 PDT |
Thank you all for your comments! I appreciate your effort! Those links are indeed interesting, although I'm not sure if they helped resolving my confusion. ;) This question was my first ever, so I lack familiarity with the process. If nobody provides an answer to this question, will it just time out after a month? Best Regards, Li Jin |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: tutuzdad-ga on 01 Aug 2003 19:06 PDT |
Yes |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: missy-ga on 02 Aug 2003 21:40 PDT |
Li Jin, Don't faint...but I know at least a dozen German families who put a glass pickle in their Christmas trees. Hey! I said *not* to faint! In 1987 and 1988, I lived in a small town called Altena, in Westfalen. I was a 16 year old high schooler, abroad as an exchange student with AFS and the Congress-Bundestag Youth Exchange program. In the weeks prior to Christmas, my Gasteltern informed me that I was not going to be permitted to help decorate the Christmas tree. "German Christmas trees are *different*", they told me, "it has to be a surprise!" On Christmas Eve, I was locked out of the living room, sent to my room to write letters and wrap presents and keep my nose out of the decorating. Early Christmas morning, I was led upstairs and shown a gorgeous sight: a fresh cut fir, lavished with scarlet glass balls, real lead tinsel (Stanniol), glass birds with real feathers in the tails and - glory of glories - real candles! And a pickle. A shiny, deep green, glass pickle. My Gastmutti was horrified when I asked whatever a pickle would be doing in an otherwise beautiful tree. She could not believe, given my German heritage, that I had no idea why there was a pickle in the tree. (My family comes from Pforzheim, we've only been in the US since 1908. I was brought up by my very traditional German grandparents from the age of 12 onwards.) I explained that no, I had never heard of putting a pickle in the tree. She was quite exasperated with me, as one of my gifts was a glass pickle purchased from the Lüdenscheider Weihnachtsmarkt - she thought I should have one from Germany, to hang on my own Christmas tree when I moved away from home and went to college. Here is my pickle: http://www.darkfriends.net/princessmoo/extras/pickle.jpg Now, I related this story to my grandparents when I spoke to them on Christmas Day that year, and they assured me that they had never been raised with any such tradition. And yet, my friends at the Burggymnasium all asked if I had found the pickle, or if my Gastschwester had. I thought it was a little weird, but no more weird than any of the other things I had encountered in Germany (don't get me started about school). I know I didn't hallucinate that Christmas - I have the pickle, I have the letters I wrote home, and I have my journal entries, in which I exclaim that the pickle in the tree is one of the funniest things I've ever heard of! I made a few phone calls today, to try to track down the origins of the pickle story. Mutti, she had no idea. "My mother always put a pickle in the tree," she said. Same for Vati - in fact, the pickle in my Gasteltern's collection had been given to Vati by his mother. Both Omas, alas, have long since passed away, so there was no asking them where the tradition came from. Friends are split. Ela, Michael and Jens, who all live in Altena, have passed the pickle tradition on to their own children. Nils and Ralf, who live in Hannover, have never heard of such a thing, and neither have their parents or grandparents. Mina, who lives in Heidelberg, has a pickle, but doesn't know of any neighbors who do and doesn't know anything more than "Mami put one in our tree every year, and gave one to me when I married. She did it because Oma had done it." Ilse, in Osnabrück, is convinced I dreamed it, but her husband claims to vaguely recall such a tradition from his childhood. Solid information has proven elusive. How odd! My best guess, Jin Li, is that the pickle is probably one of those strange, quirky, regional customs that leaked out a bit, though no one can say when it began or from whence it came. It only takes one odd villager to start a fad! Good luck in your quest to get to the bottom of this! --Missy |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: lijin-ga on 03 Aug 2003 01:31 PDT |
Dear Missy, how very interesting! Thank you so much for this very surprising comment! So there are actually people in Germany, who traditionally hang pickles in their Christmas trees! (I know the place your family comes from fairly well. I live in Karlsruhe and pass Pforzheim every day on workdays, on my way to Sindelfingen. No pickles in Sindelfingen, either.) Your comment gave me a few pointers on where to look for more information. Local newspapers in the Lüdenscheid area, or the websites of the cities and towns nearby. Also, the whole thing might make an entertaining little story for one of the major German magazines - surely beats the mating habits of wannabe celebrities. At least I feel that it might eventually be possible to resolve this issue to some extent, even if the question how it became so widely spread in the U.S. might never be answered. That could be a rewarding diploma thesis for someone. *hint* :) Again - thank you so much! Best Regards, Li Jin |
Subject:
Re: No christmas pickles in Germany
From: highroller-ga on 12 Aug 2003 17:15 PDT |
Hi all, well, let me put my 2 cents in :-) I'm german, living in the US, needless to say that in my 40 years in germany I have never come across anybody in germany who would put pickles in a christmas tree, here is my theory: I strongly believe it is a mix up of words. Just as americans often do have a problem with and rarely differentiate between "dutch" and "deutsch", it may very well stem from a mix up of "pickle" and "pickel" (the pronounciation is exactly the same). What is an old german tradition is that the christmas tree is decorated on the top with whats called a "Christbaum-Spitze". Now, many of them resemble in shape and form the infamous "Pickel" of the helmets of german policemen and soldiers before and during World War I. I could very well imagine that the tradition of putting this "pickel" on the christmas tree made its way to the US (through german immigrants) however, when the german immigrant referred to it as a "pickel" the americans took it for "pickle" so probably the word got around that its a german tradition to put a "pickle" in the christmas tree. Now, this might be the answer, but then...maybe not. Anyways, I think its at least a nice theory. So long |
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