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Q: Travelling during the Thirty Years' War ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Travelling during the Thirty Years' War
Category: Science > Social Sciences
Asked by: buncic-ga
List Price: $40.00
Posted: 11 Aug 2003 07:34 PDT
Expires: 10 Sep 2003 07:34 PDT
Question ID: 242483
Which way would a traveller from Cracow to Paris have taken in
1641-1643?

What regions of Germany would he have avoided due to the war? Or would
he have taken the cost to travel by ship (e.g. from Gdansk to Bruges)
in order to avoid Germany as a whole? Or maybe travelling was so
dangerous even at more peaceful times that the traveller would not
even have bothered about the war and taken the direct route?

In my concrete case the traveller I am interested in was still at the
University of Cracow on 13 May 1641 but was enrolled at the Sorbonne
in 1643. I am especially interested in the question whether on his way
he would have come through the Netherlands.

Please provide bibliographical sources for your assumptions.

Request for Question Clarification by scriptor-ga on 11 Aug 2003 10:21 PDT
Dear buncic,

This is a fascinating task. I have already an idea of what the
possible travel routes from Krakow to Paris might have looked like in
1641/42/43, and I will gladly do research on this question in detail,
but first I will get printed sources from the library. Does speed
matter or do I have a couple of days?

Greetings,
Scriptor

Clarification of Question by buncic-ga on 11 Aug 2003 12:55 PDT
Dear scriptor, thanks for your quick reply. Yes, you have plenty of
time. Take a couple of weeks rather than days if you need them. What
matters is quality. If you know printed ressources you cannot get hold
of that might shed more light on the issue, just give the
bibliographical data as additional information, and I will try to get
them myself.

What I need is an argumentation: Help me understand the way a 17th
century traveller would have planned his route; what factors would
have come into his mind, what knowledge would he have had of the war
going on, what did that war actually mean for travellers, etc.?

By the way, the man in question came to Paris to study theology, and
probably he had already taken courses in the same subject in Cracow.

Request for Question Clarification by scriptor-ga on 12 Aug 2003 17:15 PDT
Dear buncic,

I think it might be a goof idea to inform you about the steps I'm
taking and my progress so far.
I have been to the library today, and now I am sitting behind a huge
pile of books about the Thirty Years' War, the culture of that period,
and additional topics.
At the moment, I tend to the conclusion that our Polish student would
have gone south-westwards through Lower Silesia and Moravia, reached
the Danube somewhere between Vienna and Linz, then travelled on or
along that river westward. After reaching the region where the Danube
originates, he would have gone further, to the Rhine, and crossed the
stream somewhere between Straßburg and Basel. He then would have soon
been in Lorraine or the Franche-Comté, and after that he would have
entered France. He would have reached either the Marne or the Seine;
both rivers would have led him directly to Paris.
Currently, this is the most likely route I can imagine, regarding the
historic background and the events of the years 1641-43.
On this basis, I will go on and try to find out more. Most of my
sources are German history books, but I will not encounter any
language problems since German is my native tongue.

I will now go on with my research.
Greetings,
Scriptor

Clarification of Question by buncic-ga on 14 Aug 2003 03:13 PDT
Thanks, Scriptor, go ahead! Just remember that I need reasons why the
traveller would have taken such or such a route and why e.g. a
northern route would have been less probable. (I would not encounter
language problems with German history books either, since I am German
myself. Unfortunately, this Google Service does not yet exist in
German...)

Request for Question Clarification by scriptor-ga on 20 Aug 2003 14:14 PDT
I just wanted to let you know that I will post an answer around the
weekend. Unfortunately, it took a while; but I hope the result will be
satisfying.

Greetings,
Scriptor

Clarification of Question by buncic-ga on 24 Aug 2003 01:20 PDT
Thanks! Hope so too.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Travelling during the Thirty Years' War
Answered By: scriptor-ga on 25 Aug 2003 12:39 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear buncic,

Here are the results of my research:

-- Planning the Voyage --

When he was planning his voyage to Paris, the student would have
considered the following factors:

1. How did the war develop? What campaigns were going on, in what
directions did armies move at that time? What regions were likely to
become theatres of war soon? He would have set his travel route
according to these information, to avoid areas of war if possible. The
main danger was not that he might stumble into military action and get
killed; the by-effects were much more critical: Where the big armies
marched through, all stored eatables were plundered, livestock was
stolen or uselessly killed, waste laid on towns and villages, etc. Not
to mention the hazards coming from the collapse of all order in such
areas, including highwaymen, looting deserters and other unpleasant
groups of persons. So it was advisable to avoid regions that were
likely to become battlefields soon.

2. What regions were devestated by earlier military operations? It was
not advisable to travel though districts that were stripped of food
and shelter. The more often a swathe of land has been a location of
military operations or even only a winter camp for one of the huge
armies, the more it had become a desert. Besides, such areas were
dangerous; you never knew what starving people, refugees, deserters,
or other flotsam of war would do, especially after civil order and
authorities had suffered badly or were completely gone. And of course,
such regions were often haunted by epidemic plagues that came together
with the armies and spread easily once chaos and malnutrition had
broken out as a result of war.

3. What were the predominant religious confessions in the regions he
had to transit? As our student came from Poland-Lithuania, and as he
was a student of theology, one can assume that he was either
Roman-Catholic or Ukrainian-Catholic. Though on the field of politics
and war, religion had become a secondary issue during the last stage
of the Thirty Years' War (for example, Protestant Sweden was allied
with Catholic France), anti-Catholic sentiment was strong in
Protestant regions (and vice versa). For a Catholic voyager, it was a
good idea to avoid Protestant areas.

4. Connected with the predominant religion in the regions he would
cross was the question for shelter and food. I do not assume that our
student was wealthy; and even if he was, it had not been a good idea
to carry his fortune with him while travelling though war-torn, unsafe
countries. That means, he was not able to afford paying for sleeping
and eating in inns very often, if at all. Besides that, inns were
quite rare and not in good reputation. So where would a Catholic
student of theology sleep and eat while travelling? Mainly in the
houses of Catholic priests, in monasteries or other Catholic
institutions. That, of course, was only possible as long as he kept
travelling through Catholic regions.

5. Travelling all alone was undesirable. It was far more safe to join
a group of other travellers who had, at least for a while, the same
route. Therefore, a 17th century voyager would have set his route in a
way that made it likely to always find travel companions for the next
section of his way. That means, he had to use busy or at least common
traffic routes.

6. The choice of means of transportation (and thus the possible
routes) would have been the easiest aspect of out student's
dispositions: He had to walk. Riding a horse was something only
wealthy persons or officials could afford, and in the final phase of
the Thirty Years' War, the demand (and waste) of horses by the armies
had led to a drastic shortage of suitable horses, so it had become
even more expensive. The same goes for travelling in a coach; also,
there were no stagecoaches for public transports yet. This concept of
transportation was yet to be developed and did not emerge before the
postwar years. Apart from walking, common voyagers had only one
additional way of travelling: By river barge. Since the roads and
higways were in a poor, primitive state and not even safe, especially
after more than two decades of war, rivers and streams were used for
transportation purposes whenever possible. The barges transported
cargo, but also persons.
Even if travellers of that era did not intend to board a barge, they
preferred following a river, since accommodation could be found much
easier along those main traffic routes and since the ways along the
river banks were more comfortable, for the lack of acclivities.

7. Our student would have also considered the linguistic aspects when
planning his route. Due to the similarities of the Slavic languages,
he would not have encountered problems in regions like Moravia,
Bohemia, Silesia and even parts of Saxony, where mixed populations of
Germans and Slavs lived. With Latin, he had command over the universal
language of scholars and other learned persons. As long as he did not
leave Catholic territories (see point 4.), he could be sure to meet
priests or monks with whom he could communicate and who would
translate for him, if necessary. And after entering France, the
similarities between Latin and the Romance language French might have
provided a little additional facilitation. Our student surely was
anxious to stay in Slavic regions as long as possible, and after that,
when he had to pass the big linguistig and religious barrier that was
Germany, to mainly travel through Catholic areas.

8. The last point he may have had in mind when making plans for his
voyage was the educational aspect. In earlier centuries, learned
persons always tried to set travel routes in a way that led them to
places of cultural interest, such as famed libraries, residences of
famous scholars, universities, and the like. But since cultural life
in many regions of devestated, war-torn Central Europe was in a sad
state, it seems unlikely that our student made this an important
factor of his plans. After all, travelling was already complicated
enough without having to use loop ways just to enhance the educational
value of the voyage.


-- What Extent of Information did our Student have for Planning his
Voyage? --

Generally spoken: Without much doubt, he was quite well-informed when
he made his travel plans in Krakow. The city, until 1611 royal
residence of Poland-Lithuania, was a center of culture, information
exchange, and bookprinting. Having regard to the delay in the spread
of news due to the limited means of transportation and the war, all
kinds of relevant information on the developments in Germany and
Europe surely reached Krakow. When he left Krakow, our student without
any doubt knew where campaigning was going on, what regions he better
should avoid, etc. And certainly he was collecting additional, more
current information during his voyage. The era of the Thirty Years'
War was not only a time of devastation, it was also a time of mobility
to an extent unknown so far, and a time of newspapers. Printed
accounts on all kinds of events, mainly those connected to the war and
political developments, circulated everywhere. That means that while
he was en route, our student would have gathered valuable information
concerning the regions that lay before him, so he was able to adjust
his plans if necessary.


-- What were the possible Routes resulting from those Prerequisites?
--

After careful consideration, I see two basic routes for our student's
voyage from Krakow to Paris.

1. The safe, comfortable route.
Since Krakow is located at the Vistula river, he could have boarded a
barge or followed the river northwards. Thus, he would have stayed in
Poland, mostly untouched by the war, among Catholics of his own
language, for a distance of over 700 kilometers. Then, he would have
reached the Hanseatic harbor city of Danzig. The city's German
upper-class was mainly Protestant, but there were also many Poles of
Catholic faith. He would not have encountered linguistic or religious
problems in Danzig. He could have boarded a ship here, and sailed the
Baltic Sea. The Danish-Swedish war was yet to come, so the waters were
safe. Then, he could have either left the ship in Lübeck, travelled
over land to Hamburg, boarded another ship there, which brought him
over the North Sea to a port in Flandres or northern France, such as
Antwerpen or Le Havre. Following the rivers Schelde and Oise,
respectively the Seine, he would have reached Paris. However, the
hostile relation between the Spanish, who possessed Flandres with
Antwerpen, and the Dutch, controlled the Zeeland islands and thus the
passage to Antwerpen, had almost completely dispupted naval traffic to
the Flemish harbor city at the Schelde mouth. Therfore, I would say
that Le Havre or Rouen on the Seine are more likely for this route.
However, despite all advantages, this travel route had also huge
downsides:
- It was expensive. The passage of Baltic Sea and North Sea by ship
was not for free. I also can't imagine our student working on board of
the vessels to earn the passage, since an inlander like him would have
only interfered with the work of the professional sailors.
- The Baltic Sea was the territory of Protestant seafarers, Germans
from the Hanseatic Cities, Danes, and Swedes. Our student might have
felt uneasy among them.
- And would an inlander from the Ukraine, who has pobably never seen
the ocean before, ever wage the adventure of sailing the high sea?
Wouldn't he rather prefer a land route instead?

2. The exhausting, more dangerous route.
Our student would have left Krakow and travelled south-westwards,
first through Upper Silesia in the area of the town of Teschen; after
that, through Moravia, always close to the Hungarian border. In those
regions, he would have been among Slavs, which was a big advantage for
communication. But he had to avoid, under all circumstances, the
region south of the town of Olmütz, where unrest and rebellion among
the peasants was going on. And in case he travelled Moravia in the
summer of 1642, he would have had to hurry, since a Swedish army under
General Torstenson was on its way south, with destination Vienna
(which Torstenson would never reach since his forces were suddenly
needed in other theaters of war). After crossing Moravia, our student
would have entered Austria and reached the Danube river, probably in
the Vienna area. From there, he could follow the Danube westwards.
Unfortunately, he would have had to transit some of the most
devastated regions of Germany; but at least he had been among
Catholics most of the time, and there was no major military combat
action going on. Following the Danube to its headwaters, he would have
reached the Breisgau, which had the Rhine as western border. After
crossing the Rhine, maybe at Colmar or Schleffstadt, he would have
crossed Lorraine, then entered France. Soon he would have reached the
Marne, which had led him northwards, right to Paris.
This route was, of course, more dangerous and wearisome. Nevertheless,
I think that it is (as a basic concept) more likely than the first
alternative, mainly because of the much lower expenses and for the
fact that I expect an inlander to prefer an overland voyage.


Finally, I would like to add that I can, alas, not guarantee that our
student really took one of these two routes; nor would I even try to
reason what his waypoints may have been in detail. But based upon the
given prerequisites, my assumptions seem logical and probable to me. I
am quite sure that our student followed the second route, at least in
general.


-- Sources --

Herbert Langer: Kulturgeschichte des 30jährigen Krieges. Published by
Verlag W. Kohlhammer, 1978. ISBN 3-17-004743-4

Peter Englund: Die Verwüstung Deutschlands - Eine Geschichte des
Dreißigjährigen Krieges. Published by Klett-Cotta, 1998. ISBN
3-608-91734-9

Bausinger / Beyrer / Korff (eds.): Reisekultur - Von der Pilgerfahrt
zum modernen Tourismus. Published by Verlag C. H. Beck, 1999. ISBN
3-406-44950-6

Atlas zur Universalgeschichte. Published by Paul List Verlag, 1980.
ISBN 3-471-40430-9

Hermann Glaser / Thomas Werner: Die Post in ihrer Zeit - Eine
Kulturgeschichte menschlicher Kommunikation. Published by Decker,
1990. ISBN 3-7685-4489-3

Bussmann / Schilling (eds.): 1648 - War and Peace in Europe. Volume I:
Politics, Religion, Law and Society. Published by Verlagsgesellschaft
350 Jahre Westfälischer Friede, 1998. ISBN 3-88789-128-7

Bussmann / Schilling (eds.): 1648 - War and Peace in Europe. Volume
II: Art and Culture. Published by Verlagsgesellschaft 350 Jahre
Westfälischer Friede, 1998. ISBN 3-88789-128-7

Peter Milger: Der Dreißigjährige Krieg - Gegen Land und Leute.
Published by Bertelsmann Verlag, 1998. ISBN 3-57201-270-8


Hope this is what you had in mind.
Very best regards,
Scriptor

Request for Answer Clarification by buncic-ga on 27 Aug 2003 02:13 PDT
I have just come home from abroad, so that I have only just seen your
answer. It is great, with a lot of background knowledge that would
have taken me ages to acquire. Thank you very much, I will soon post a
respective rating.

There is one more interesting item of information that you have hinted
at but not stated explicitly: Would the route you propose as the most
probable one have lead the traveller exclusively through Catholic
territory, or is it just the one that includes the shortest possible
way through Protestant territory?

Clarification of Answer by scriptor-ga on 27 Aug 2003 05:48 PDT
Dear buncic,

The most probable overland route would have led him almost exclusively
through Catholic regions. Between the Danube headwaters and the Rhine,
the student might have touched the territory of the dukedom of
Württemberg where Protestanism was predominant.

Best regards,
Scriptor
buncic-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Very exhaustive answer based on good background knowledge and a
reasonable argumentation. Very quick replies. Thanks a lot!

Comments  
Subject: Re: Travelling during the Thirty Years' War
From: fp-ga on 11 Aug 2003 16:12 PDT
 
I suppose that the man in question studied catholic theology.
Therefore he may have felt more secure travelling through catholic
states, avoiding the protestant ones. Have you any idea where he came
from (before studying in Cracow)?
Looking forward to the answer by scriptor.
Subject: Re: Travelling during the Thirty Years' War
From: buncic-ga on 11 Aug 2003 22:11 PDT
 
Yes, that is right. Both in Cracow and in Paris it would of course
have been Catholic theology. The traveller came from the Eastern parts
of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I suspect a region that would
nowadays be on the border between Ukraine and Belarus. Consequently,
the man himself might as well have been Orthodox (as far as I am
informed the Jesuite schools readily and even eagerly accepted
non-Catholics; maybe the universities as well?) or, at the moment the
more probable variant, Uniate (i.e. an Orthodox who accepts some
Catholic dogmas, especially the primacy of the Pope and the Filioque;
in other words, a Catholic who celebrates the Service according to the
Eastern rite, in the Church Slavonic language).

Apart from his Ruthenian mother tongue, our traveller was fluent in
Church Slavonic, Polish, and Latin. In all four languages he left us
written works that demonstrate his perfection. On the other hand it
seems that at the time in question he did not speak French, German or
Dutch (at least not very well). I assume that he bought a multilingual
phrasebook on his way and used the Latin column to translate into the
living languages he needed. In Paris he left manuscript translations
of the Latin column into both Ruthenian and Church Slavonic, but in
these translations he never used the French, German or Dutch columns
when there were obvious mistakes in the Latin column.

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