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Q: "trickle down" economic theory ( No Answer,   8 Comments )
Question  
Subject: "trickle down" economic theory
Category: Relationships and Society > Politics
Asked by: bigsticks-ga
List Price: $3.00
Posted: 01 Sep 2003 17:41 PDT
Expires: 01 Oct 2003 17:41 PDT
Question ID: 251222
What proof is there that the "trickle down" economic theory works
(also, what are the origins of this idea)? I saw a news person on the
Fox News Channel yesterday say there are signs the economy is
improving, which is resulting from the "trickle down" effect of the
Bush tax cuts. This was during a "news" segment, not an opinion piece,
on a cable network that claims to be "fair and balanced". I've heard
from other sources that there is little or no evidence this type of
policy has had any practical benefit. Where can I obtain "unbiased"
information on this?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: scottso-ga on 02 Sep 2003 06:27 PDT
 
Hi bigsticks,

Most everything I've seen on the topic says that trickle-down (or
supply-side) economics does not work.  Several finance experts
(including a professor at Cornell University) have told me that when
wealthy people have more money to spend, they actually... don't spend
it.  Wealthy people don't change buying habits because they have a
little more money available to them.  They end up investing it so that
they can earn... more money!  Not a whole lot of facts here, but
thought I'd chime in.

Scott
scottso-ga
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: mvguy-ga on 02 Sep 2003 07:51 PDT
 
Just because a network calls itself "fair and balanced" doesn't make it so.
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: asterisk_man-ga on 02 Sep 2003 11:58 PDT
 
Just a comment on the explanation given by scottso about why (some
say) trickle-down doesn't work:
What do you think happens to money that people invest? If you put $100
into the bank and get 1% return how much do you think was actually
made off of your money so that returning 1% to you was still
profitable for the bank? How many people's wadges were paied for by
skimming a little off the money that your $100 made?
Think about how huge the finance industry is and tell me that
investments are like putting the cash under your mattress as far as
benefit to the economy is concerned.

As far as proof that the theory works, it is awfully hard to prove
many macro-economic theories because economics does not occur in a
vacuum. Personal opinion aside, I can not say if trickle-down works or
not, just that I disagree with the reasoning that scottso gave. To be
more specific, I am willing to give you that wealthy people invest
money at a greater rate as they become more wealthy but I am not
willing to go along with your implied conclusion that this investment
does not contribute to the economy.
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: drtandem1-ga on 10 Sep 2003 23:04 PDT
 
Proof of trickle-down economics is based on human nature.  There is no
point in having extra money unless you are going to spend it in some
form.  Of course, there are certain individuals that have a compulsion
to hoard things, including money.  However, the vast majority of
people spend.  The comment saying wealthy people don't spend, they
invest is like saying they don't eat, they dine.  It's the same thing.
 Somebody is benefitting from their "investment".  Maybe a young start
up company with no money, but great plans.  They then become
successful and make money while the investor is rewarded for the risk
they took.  They don't invest by stuffing their mattress with cash.

For instance, you may recall the luxury tax on yachts.  Now, most will
agree that mostly wealthy people purchase yachts.  They stopped buying
them when the tax inhibited their spending.  The wealthy did not
suffer.  The yachting industry suffered.  Who builds the yachts?  Not
wealthy people, but working class individuals actually build them. 
Guess who suffered?  The workers who lost their jobs as there was no
longer a strong demand for yachts.  The tax was quietly repealed. 
Once wealthy people started "investing" in yachts again, the workers
had jobs and received money that had trickled down to them from the
wealthy purchasing the fruit of their labor.

Think about this:  No nation has ever been taxed into prosperity.
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: ephraim-ga on 11 Sep 2003 21:52 PDT
 
drtandem1-ga:

I've frequently seen the claim "No nation has ever been taxed into prosperity."

I'm wondering if you could be a little more specific about what you mean by this.

How do you define "prosperity?" Could you give some examples?

Are you referring to *all* taxes or just taxes above a certain threshold?

/ephraim
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: c_myers-ga on 30 Jul 2004 14:24 PDT
 
Here's a great in-depth analysis of supply-side economics (aka
Reaganomics or Trickle-down-economoics):

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html

This was written during the 1996 campaign when Democrats and liberals
were bashing  Dole for supporting Reaganomics and Reagan
economic-style theories.

Though this article only compares the US economy up until 1995
(Clinton's first term), the results of Reagan's economic policy are
staggering:

# Economic Growth. The average annual growth rate of real gross
domestic product (GDP) from 1981 to 1989 was 3.2 percent per year,
compared with 2.8 percent from 1974 to 1981 and 2.1 percent from 1989
to 1995. The 3.2 percent growth rate for the Reagan years includes the
recession of the early 1980s, which was a side effect of reversing
Carter's high-inflation policies, and the seven expansion years,
1983-89. During the economic expansion alone, the economy grew by a
robust annual rate of 3.8 percent. By the end of the Reagan years, the
American economy was almost one-third larger than it was when they
began. [13] Figure 1 shows the economic growth rate by president since
World War II. That rate was higher in the 1980s than in the 1950s and
1970s but was substantially lower than the rapid economic growth rate
of more than 4 percent per year in the 1960s. The Kennedy income tax
rate cuts of 30 percent that were enacted in 1964 generated several
years of 5 percent annual real growth.
# Economic Growth per Working-Age Adult. When we adjust the economic
growth rates to take account of demographic changes, we find that the
expansion in the Reagan years looks even better and that the 1970s'
performance looks worse. GDP growth per adult aged 20-64 in the Reagan
years grew twice as rapidly, on average, as it did in the pre- and
post-Reagan years.
# Median Household Incomes. Real median household income rose by
$4,000 in the Reagan years--from $37,868 in 1981 to $42,049 in 1989,
as shown in Figure 2. This improvement was a stark reversal of the
income trends in the late 1970s and the 1990s: median family income
was unchanged in the eight pre-Reagan years, and incomes have fallen
by $1,438 in the anti-supply-side 1990s, following the 1990 and 1993
tax hikes. [14] Most of the declines in take-home pay occurred on
George Bush's watch. Under Bill Clinton's tenure, there has been zero
income growth in median household income.
# Employment. From 1981 through 1989 the U.S. economy produced 17
million new jobs, or roughly 2 million new jobs each year. Contrary to
the Clinton administration's claims of vast job gains in the 1990s,
the United States has averaged only 1.3 million new jobs per year in
the post-Reagan years. The labor force United States has averaged only
1.3 million new jobs expanded by 1.7 percent per year between 1981 and
1989, but by just 1.2 percent per year between 1990 and 1995. [15]
# Hours Worked. Table 1 confirms that hours worked per adult aged
20-64 grew much faster in the 1980s than in the pre -or post-Reagan
years.
# Unemployment Rate. When Reagan took office in 1981, the unemployment
rate was 7.6 percent. In the recession of 1981-82, that rate peaked at
9.7 percent, but it fell continuously for the next seven years. When
Reagan left office, the unemployment rate was 5.5 percent. This
reduction in joblessness was a clear triumph of the Reagan program.
Figure 3 shows that in the pre-Reagan years, the unemployment rate
trended upward; in the Reagan years, the unemployment rate trended
downward; and in the post-Reagan years, the unemployment rate has
fluctuated up and down but today remains virtually unchanged from the
1989 rate.
# Productivity. For real wages to rise, productivity must rise. Over
the past 30 years there has been a secular downward trend in U.S.
productivity growth. Under Reagan, productivity grew at a 1.5 percent
annual rate, as shown in Figure 4. This was lower than in the 1950s,
1960s, and 1970s but much higher than in the post-Reagan years. Under
Clinton, productivity has increased at an annual rate of just 0.3
percent per year--the worst presidential performance since that of
Herbert Hoover.
# Inflation. The central economic evil that Ronald Reagan inherited in
1981 from Jimmy Carter was three years of double-digit inflation. In
1980 the consumer price index (CPI) rose to 13.5 percent. By Reagan's
second year in office, the inflation rate fell by more than half to
6.2 percent. In 1988, Reagan's last year in office, the CPI had fallen
to 4.1 percent. Figure 5 shows the inflation and interest rate trend.
# Interest Rates. In 1980 the interest rate on a 30-year mortgage was
15 percent; this rate rose to its all-time peak of 18.9 percent in
1981. The prime rate steadily fell over the subsequent six years to a
low of 8.2 percent in 1987 as the inflationary expectation component
of interest rates fell sharply. The prime rate hit its 20-year low in
1993 at 6.0 percent. The Treasury Bill rate also fell dramatically in
the 1980s--from 14 percent in 1981 to 7 percent in 1988. In the 1990s,
interest rates have continued to migrate gradually downward, as shown
in Figure 5.
# Savings. The savings rate did not rise in the 1980s, as supply-side
advocates had predicted. In fact, in the 1980s the personal savings
rate fell from 8 percent to 6.5 percent. [16]In the 1990s the average
savings rate has fallen even further to an average of 4.9 percent
[17]--although the rate of decline has slowed.

It's interesting to note that the rate-of-growth in 1990-1995 was only
1.2%. This was supposedly the start of a boom-time of the later-half
of the 90's. The growth during that time was mostly artifical because
of dot-com hysteria and "The Bubble". I don't have exact data on
1996-2000, but I don't think the actual GDP growth rate was much
better than 1.2-1.7%.

By way of comparison, the current growth rate is considered "sluggish" at 1.9%.

So, while the current (Q3-2004) economy is luke-warm and getting
warmer, it's STILL doing better over all than it was in 1990-1995
under Clinton.
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: dhscaresme-ga on 08 Oct 2004 21:42 PDT
 
c_myers-ga, 

the report you have cited is published by the cato institute. The Cato
institute is a republican think tank. This report may not be taken
into consideration if the reader is looking to find unbiased
information. The Cato institute is famous for publishing articles
which go against all mainstream science and distributing them to
congressmen as legite, peer-reviewed documents to influence
legislation. Global warming is a fantastic example where the Cato
institute has published horribly inacurate documents. Check it out.
Subject: Re: "trickle down" economic theory
From: drcorday-ga on 08 Jan 2005 22:54 PST
 
Is there ANY unbiased information on this? I can't trust Cato's
numbers as they are a self-declared think tank for conservative
values.

Maybe there was a study done on this at some school?

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