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Q: Quite simple: Comma or no comma before this "and"? ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Quite simple: Comma or no comma before this "and"?
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: lijin-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 04 Sep 2003 02:17 PDT
Expires: 04 Oct 2003 02:17 PDT
Question ID: 252085
"This document shall serve as the main reference throughout the
process of specification and development, and addresses all the
stakeholders involved, mainly [list of stakeholders]."

Should the comma in "development, and addresses" be left out? I feel
it belongs there, but a colleague has a different opionion. Who is
right? :)
Answer  
Subject: Re: Quite simple: Comma or no comma before this "and"?
Answered By: boquinha-ga on 04 Sep 2003 07:09 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello lijin-ga,

I am happy to report that you are correct! Your question is
interesting to me, as I like to read things that are clear and easy to
follow, and proper comma use is essential in clear, good writing. In
the previous sentence, I used 3 commas. Each comma represents a
different rule of grammar. The one that precedes the word “and”
follows the same rule of grammar as the comma does in your example.

There are a variety of writing handbooks available to help people
understand how to properly use punctuation (as well as other elements
of writing). I’ve got an undergraduate degree in the Humanities and a
graduate degree in the Social Sciences. I had to do a lot of writing
for both. In the Humanities, one usually follows the MLA (Modern
Language Association) style. In the Social Sciences, one often follows
the APA (American Psychological Association) style. We own both
handbooks, and I used both as a reference to answer your question. I
prefer MLA to APA by far, but that’s another story. For rules of
punctuation, the books are a great deal similar in approach and rules.

Both handbooks list the answer to your question as one of the very
first points (first in MLA, second in APA) under “comma usage” in the
punctuation section. The reason why you are correct in your placement
of the comma is explained and confirmed in both handbooks with the
same rule. The MLA handbook (4th edition) states, “Use a comma before
a coordinating conjunction (and, but, for, nor, or, yet, or so)
joining independent clauses in a sentence” (p. 44). The APA handbook
(4th edition) states, “Use a comma to separate two independent clauses
joined by a conjunction” (p. 62). Both books then back that rule up
with examples for clarification.

I will use your example to illustrate and explain:

This document shall serve as the main reference throughout the process
of specification and development, and addresses all the stakeholders
involved, mainly [list of stakeholders].

This sentence has 2 independent clauses—sentences that can stand by
themselves. The first clause is “This document shall serve as the main
reference throughout the process of specification and development.”
The second clause is “and addresses all the stakeholders involved,
mainly [list of stakeholders].” The second clause could be stated as
an independent sentence like this: “This document shall address all
the stakeholders involved, mainly [list of stakeholders].” This
example has 2 independent thoughts (both explaining the subject—“the
document”). They can be stated separately. Or they can be stated in
the same sentence, as you have in your example. And when they are
stated in the same sentence, a comma is needed before the coordination
conjunction (“and”) to join the independent clauses without confusion.

I personally believe that though the sentence could be understood
without the proper use of the comma, it can easily lead to confusion.
If it were NOT there, it sends an entirely different message and may
require the reader to go back and read it again. In fact, with a word
like “addresses,” it can be a noun or a verb and context is
everything. The comma most definitely gives a better reading of the
sentence and is also the correct way to use punctuation in this
example.

I applaud you for verifying your opinion and for sticking to it! I
applaud you even more for placing a value on good writing. In my
opinion, that is sorely missing from today’s world of specialized
training and quick electronic communication. Kudos to you! I hope you
find this information useful, and if you, or your colleague, should
have further questions, please let me know! (Hey, look! The rule comes
into play yet again!!)

Regards,
Boquinha-ga

You may find this site useful to you:
http://www.mun.ca/writingcentre/commarules.shtml

Search Strategy:

Personal knowledge
Personal reference books (MLA manual, APA manual)
Comma  + rules  
://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=comma+rules
lijin-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $5.00
Dear boquinha-ga,

thank you very much for your very elaborate answer! This is more than
I hoped for, and therefore I think it's fair that you get more than
originally offered. :)

Regards,

LiJin

Comments  
Subject: Re: Quite simple: Comma or no comma before this "and"?
From: boquinha-ga on 04 Sep 2003 07:15 PDT
 
The 6th paragraph should more correctly read: 

I personally believe that though the sentence could be understood
without the proper use of the comma, it could easily lead to
confusion. If it were NOT there, it would send an entirely different
message and would possibly require the reader to go back and read it
again. In fact, a word like “addresses” can be a noun or a verb and
context is everything. The comma most definitely gives a better
reading of the sentence, and is also the correct way to use
punctuation in this example.

I rewrote the paragraph to fix the grammar. I also rewrote it to make
sure to carefully follow the comma rule in question!
Subject: Re: Quite simple: Comma or no comma before this "and"?
From: boquinha-ga on 04 Sep 2003 07:42 PDT
 
Thank you so much for the 5-star rating and the very generous tip! I
guess you got me on a topic that gets me all fired up! :)

Thank you again so much,
Boquinha
Subject: Re: Quite simple: Comma or no comma before this "and"?
From: snsh-ga on 04 Sep 2003 11:06 PDT
 
Grammar rules are overrated (unless you have to deal with neurotic
english teacher-types).  The bottom line is whether your sentences are
quickly readable.

I think the sentence needs to be broken up to make it more readable:

"This document shall serve as the main reference throughout the
process of specification and development.  This document addresses all
the stakeholders involved, mainly [list of stakeholders]."

or even better, the sentence can be rewritten:

"Throughout the process of specification and development, this
document shall serve as the main reference for all the stakeholders
involved, mainly [list of stakeholders]."
Subject: Re: Quite simple: Comma or no comma before this "and"?
From: lijin-ga on 04 Sep 2003 11:31 PDT
 
I like how you rearranged the sentence. Definitely better.
Thanks a lot! :)

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