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Q: who is this painter and when did this happen? ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: who is this painter and when did this happen?
Category: Arts and Entertainment
Asked by: shin-ga
List Price: $30.00
Posted: 12 Sep 2003 06:32 PDT
Expires: 12 Oct 2003 06:32 PDT
Question ID: 254981
i heard the story about two painters.renaissance, competing to paint
as real as possible infornt of the king. one painted a still life so
real that a bird flew in to the painting where as other, maybe known
as raphael, painted a draped over the fram. the king asked to reveal
the painting. and he answered it is the painting my lord. i would like
to find out if there is a real historical evidence behind this story.

Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 12 Sep 2003 08:15 PDT
shin --

The incident to which you are referring was reported by a classical
Roman historian about 400 years after it supposedly happened.  I could
give you a complete account of the incident as reported, as well as
information on the view of experts on its relevance to the study of
art history. However, "real historical evidence" for the anecdote --
other than its recording by a famed Roman historian -- is not likely
to be found because of a lack of a contemporaneous written record.

The painters involved were real historical figures and something like
the incident described might well have occurred. However, the anecdote
is often related by experts to be "legend," which just means
"unverified."

Would you be satisfied with authoritative information about the
anecdote without conclusive evidence that it actually occurred as
described?

markj-ga

Clarification of Question by shin-ga on 12 Sep 2003 11:05 PDT
it would be great if i can get some names, place and dates even if it
might be just a myth.
Answer  
Subject: Re: who is this painter and when did this happen?
Answered By: markj-ga on 12 Sep 2003 15:12 PDT
 
shin --

Thanks for your clarification.  I hope that you will find this
information to be as fascinating as I do.

The painter of the still life described in the anecdote that interests
you was Zeuxis, who was born in Heraclea, Greece in the 5th century
B.C. The painter of the drape was Parrhasius, who was born in Ephesus
during the same period. Both are considered to be among the greatest
of the Greek painters of that era, although none of their work has
survived.

Here is a brief biography of Zeuxis:
Art Cult: Zeuxis: One of the First Great Masters
http://www.artcult.com/zeuxis.html

And here is a brief biography of Parrhasius:
Infoplease: Parrhasius
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0837710.html

The incident involving the competition between the two artists was
reported about 400 years later by Pliny the Elder in Book 35 of his
masterwork, "Natural History."  Here is an English translation (from
the original Latin) of the anecdote:

“[Parrhasius], it is recorded, entered into a competition with Zeuxis,
who produced a picture of grapes so successfully represented that
birds flew to the stage-buildings; whereupon Parrhasius himself
produced such a realistic picture of a curtain that Zeuxis, proud of
the verdict of the birds, requested that the curtain should now be
drawn and the picture displayed; and when he realized his mistake,
with a modesty that did him honour he yielded up the prize, saying
that whereas he had deceived birds Parrhasius had deceived him, an
artist.”
Pliny, Natural History volume 9. Books XXXIII - XXXV. English
translation by Rackham (London: Heinemann)
This translation may be found on the following linked web page:
Patrick Hughes: Reverspective: Fooling the Eyes: Trompe L'Oeil and
Reverse Perspective
http://www.patrickhughes.co.uk/papers/wade_hughes_perception28.htm

Pliny ("Gaius Plinius Secundas"), was "a Roman official, cavalry
officer, advisor, and author of the 37 volume Natural History
encyclopedia, which was written to "set forth in detail all the
contents of the entire world. . . ."  Pliny was born in Como, Italy in
23 A.D. and completed his "Natural History" in 77 A.D.  Here is a link
to a brief biography of Pliny the Elder:
Abila.org: Pliny the Elder
http://www.abila.org/pliny.html

Since no other written record of the Zeuxis-Parrhasius competition
survives, art historians and classical scholars often ascribe
"legendary" status to the anecdote.  This, of course, does not mean
that it did not occur, only that it cannot be verified.  Here are a
couple of examples of the way that the story is often characterized:

"The ancient Greek painters Zeuxis and Parrhasius vied, according to
legend, to see who could produce the most realistic painting. Zeuxis
illustrated grapes so lifelike that birds swooped down and tried to
eat them. Parrhasius outdid him, however, by fashioning a curtain that
Zeuxis, mistaking for fabric, attempted to pull open."
Time Magazine
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/from_redirect/0,10987,1101901210-153313,00.html

"Legend has it that the ancient Greek painter Zeuxis was so good at
making things appear real that birds flew at his painted grapes and
tried to eat them, much like the birds crashing into those Windex
windows."
The Washington Diplomat: Real Illusions
http://www.washdiplomat.com/02-12/bC_02_12.html

While the incident as described cannot be verified as true in all its
details, largely because of "the loss of the Greek texts on which
Pliny had so heavily depended," we do know that the artists cited by
Pliny were master painters and that Pliny was a dedicated historian
whose "Natural History became a substitute for a general education."
Indeed, "in the European Middle Ages many of the larger monastic
libraries possessed copies of the work; these and many abridged
versions ensured Pliny's place in European literature."
Abila.org: Pliny the Elder
http://www.abila.org/pliny.html


Additional Information:

A particularly fascinating aspect of Pliny's report of the competition
between Zeuxis and Parrhasius is that the origin of "illusionist" and
"trompe l'oeil" art is often traced by historians to this very
incident.

As described on the website of the National Gallery of Art in
Washington, D.C.:
"A heightened form of illusionism, the art of trompe l'oeil flourished
from the Renaissance onward. The discovery of perspective in
fifteenth-century Italy and advancements in the science of optics in
the seventeenth-century Netherlands enabled artists to render objects
and spaces with eye-fooling exactitude. Both witty and serious, trompe
l'oeil is a game artists play with spectators to raise questions about
the nature of art and perception."
National Gallery of Art: Exhibitions
http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/trompe-info.htm


The New York Institute of Photography (among others) makes the
connection of trompe l'eoul to the Pliny report of the competition
between the great Greek artists:

"Trompe l'oeil painting has a long history that stretches all the way
back to Greek and Roman antiquity. In his Natural History, Pliny the
Elder, an ancient historian, records the story of Zeuxis and
Parrhasius, two still life painters. The two ancient Greek masters
challenged each other to an artistic duel to determine once and for
all who was the better painter. Zeuxis painted such a realistic
painting of grapes that real birds tried to eat them. When Zeuxis went
to his challenger's studio to boast of this feat, he tried to pull
aside a curtain covering one of Parrahsius's paintings. The curtain
was painted, and Zeuxis had been fooled into thinking it was real. He
humbly admitted defeat."
New York Institute of Photography: Tips For Better Photographs
http://www.nyip.com/tips/topic_art0802b.php

Here is a link to an image of a mural in the Gallery of the History of
Ancient Painting at State Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg, Russia,
which depicts Zeuxis painting a boy with grapes:
Hermitage Musuem
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/05/hm88_5_0_25_1.html

Here is a link to Book XXXV of Pliny's Natural History in the original
Latin.  The paragraphs related to Zeuxis and Parrhasius begin at
paragraph 60:
University of Kansas
http://www.ku.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/L/Roman/Texts/Pliny_the_Elder/35*.html


Search Strategy:

I used various Google searches to find this information. The ones
listed below are those that might be most useful to you in looking for
further information on this fascinating topic:

pliny zeuxis parrhasius grapes
://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=pliny++zeuxis++parrhasius+grapes

parrhasius
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=parrhasius&spell=1

zeuxis painter
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=zeuxis+painter

pliny OR pliny's "natural history" zeuxis
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22pliny+OR+pliny%27s+%22natural+history%22+zeuxis++&btnG=Google+Search




I hope this information satisfies your curiosity about the competition
between  the two painters that prompted your question.  If any of the
information is unclear, please ask for clarification before rating the
answer.


markj-ga
Comments  
Subject: Re: who is this painter and when did this happen?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 12 Sep 2003 15:36 PDT
 
This is one of the most interesting answers I've read on GA in a long time. 

Thanks, markj-ga!

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