Yet another "Why don't I appear on Google?" 
 
We host a virtual site for a client on our web server machine.  Our 
site (http://www.techsmiths.com/ is indexed and appears reasonably
placed in Google.  Our client's (http://www.phoenixoptions.com/) site
is invisible.  We submitted it 3 months ago.  Our statistics show that
Googlebot has visited the site from time to time, but never gotten
more than one page.  A Google search even specifically listing the
domain returns no results. There is no robots.txt anywhere on the
machine.
 
The only visits the site gets is by people following the link from OUR
site (which should be an "external reference/link" causing Google to 
look there when indexing our site). It also gets referrals from the 
web design and graphical design companies that helped develop the 
site.  Those sites are visible on Google. 
 
Our client's site is not anywhere in the Google index, as best we can
tell.  Google has only been by to visit the site once, after we 
submitted the URL in May.  It saw one page.  Alexa, Scooter, Inktomi 
manage to find it, and crawl multiple pages.  But no MSN, no Google. 
 
We've reviewed all the rules.  There are no frames.  We're at a loss 
to understand why our client is invisible.  Repeated for emphasis: the
client's site is an IIS "Virtual Site" using the same IP address as
our site.  Logs show Google has come by.  It hits the home page and
goes away.

Someone suggested earlier that it is a local/geographic phenominon.  I
have clients/users/friends all over the world from Bombay, Hong Kong,
Bogota, and France, as well as all over the US who tell me they can
see it.  Our statistics show that people from around the world get to
the site and navigate to different pages (but they get to the site by
directly typing the URL).

Neither the "real" nor the virtual site are gateways for each other,
they are independent companies.  Another client site, also not indexed
but should be, also virtual on the same server, is
http://www.i-nativity.com/.

Since Google comprises 80%+ of our hits to our main site, we obviously
want google to work on the virtual sites.

Hi Techsmith ~

You're right, we do get a lot of questions about sites which don't
show up in Google, or how to get them to show up better, or how to
increase their PageRank, and often we are able to pinpoint
difficulties which can help solve the problem.

I'll remind you, though, that Google Answers Researchers are
independent contractors, we do not have access to the inner workings
at Google or any insider information about its closely-guarded
algorithms. However, based on information available from a number of
reliable resources -- especially Google, I can point out some problems
that prohibit the sites getting listed in Google's directory and how
to increase your chances of getting listed.

Other sources, generally acknowledged to be reliable, are cited within
this answer; but let's start with what Google has to say about it.


=========================
Getting Listed in Google
=========================

Google's Webmaster Information explains that the best way to ensure
Google finds your site is for your page to be linked from lots of
pages on other sites, and explains that

     "Google's robots jump from page to page on the Web via
      hyperlinks, so the more sites that link to you, the more
      likely it is that we'll find you quickly."
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html#A2


Google explains it again in "Our Search: Google Technology" explaining
to the extent it is going to the importance of links to your site -

     "PageRank Explained

      PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the
      web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of
      an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets
      a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for
      page B."

combined with the integration of relevant content -

     "But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes,
      or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that
      casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves
      "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other
      pages "important.""
   - ://www.google.com/technology/index.html


You mentioned three sites, your own (www.techsmiths.com - referred to
as Techsmiths), and those of two clients, (www.phoenixoptions.com -
referred to as Phoenix Options), and (www.i-nativity.com - referred to
as i-nativity).

Using Google's link:tool, which is explained here
(://www.google.com/help/features.html), I checked Google for links
to your three sites -

    * Techsmiths - 2 links only (both internal links)
    * Phoenix Options - none listed
    * i-nativity - none listed

The lack of relevant links to your sites greatly reduces the chance of
inclusion in Google. While it's not impossible, it becomes more
difficult, based on Google's PageRank explained above.


===========================   
Establishing Links    
===========================    
   
As stated, Google's PageRank is based on the number of pages which
link to your site.

"The best way to ensure Google finds your site is for your page to be
linked from lots of pages on other sites. Google's robots jump from
page to page on the Web via hyperlinks, so the more sites that link to
you, the more likely it is that we'll find you quickly." ("How Do I
Get My Site Listed on Google? - 2. Submitting Your site")
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html#A1   
    
There are many practical ways of establishing links which are
beneficial to you in your endeavor to get respectable position
placement on search engines. These methods may take time, but they
also help in establishing credibility and help with your page rank.

Approach like-minded or complementary businesses about linking to your
site (with a reciprocal link from your own). This works without
harming search engine positioning or page rank.
 
A WORD OF WARNING:   
==================   
   
Google specifically warns "Don't participate in link schemes designed
to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid
links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web as your own
ranking may be affected adversely by those links." (See Google's
Quality Guidelines - Basic principles)
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html   
   
   
It stands to reason that what's good for Google, currently ranked as
the number one search engine is good rule to follow for other search
engines.
 
 
Articles on Link Popularity 
===========================    
 
A couple of excellent articles on how to establish the right kind of
links are available in Traffick's "Ten Steps to Building Links to Your
Site", Craig Fifield - 5/3/2002
  - http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=77    
    
and "The Right Way to Improve Link Popularity", By Paul J. Bruemmer -
4/14/2002 -
  - http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=41    
    
Notice both articles offer suggestions which can be easily adapted for
use on any website without resorting to link farms. They both point
out the differences and offer easy ways to get started to the kind of
linking search engines prefer.


==============================
What About The Other
Directories & Search Engines?
==============================

If you are having difficulties getting listed, Google recommends that
you list your sites with the Open Directory Project and Yahoo!,
explaining that you will often be picked up and included within six to
eight weeks after you show up in those. (See "What else can I do to
get listed in Google?")
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html#B2


Checking the other directories, here's what I found:

Search engine
or directory     Techsmiths   Phoenix Options   i-nativity
=============    ==========   ===============   ========== 
DMOZ               -none-         -none-          -none-
All The Web      yes w/links      -none-          -none-
Alta Vista          yes             yes           -none-
Hot Bot             yes           -none-          -none-
Yahoo!           yes, but not     -none-          -none-
                     the first 


Submitting to these sites enhance your chance for inclusion in
Google's search engine, so you should look to including them in those
directories or search engines, especially the Open Directory Project
(dmoz.org) and Yahoo!


=====================
Designing a
Google-Friendly Site
=====================

In addition to the above, Google has recommendations and suggestions
which, if followed, make your site "Google-friendly" and most sites
who follow their guidelines have little difficulty in getting
included.

In Google's Design and Content Guidelines, Google recommends:  

    "* Make a site with a clear hierarchy and text links.
       Every page should be reachable from at least one
       static text link.
     * Offer a site map to your users with links that point
       to the important parts of your site. If the site map
       is larger than 100 or so links, you may want to break
       the site map into separate pages.
     * Create a useful, information-rich site and write pages
       that clearly and accurately describe your content.
     * Think about the words users would type to find your pages,
       and make sure that your site actually includes those words
       within it.
     * Try to use text instead of images to display important
       names, content, or links. The Google crawler doesn't
       recognize text contained in images.
     * Make sure that your TITLE and ALT tags are descriptive
       and accurate.
     * Check for broken links and correct HTML ..."
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html


Using Phoenix Options as an example, I found the following
recommendations lacking:

1. Text links
   Okay, there are links which show in the browsers (well, a browser
that has javascript enabled. There are NO links showing if your
browser has turned javascript off, and more important, Google doesn't
follow javascripting, so since both your top and bottom menus are
called with javascripting, (ie., <script language="javascript"
src="/serverincludes/bottom_nav.html"></script>), Google can't follow
those pages.

Without links from another site to your inner pages, Google doesn't
know they exist, and certainly cannot index them.

2. No site map (which for so small a site wouldn't ordinarily be
necessary), and with no text links to follow, the problem is
compounded by the lack of a site map.

3. "useful, information-rich site and write pages that clearly and
accurately describe your content" - The header for Phoenix Options is
a graphic with no ALT tag. Google can't read the text on a graphic, so
the header, "Bringing New Life to Living Space" doesn't show up at
all.

The only text showing is the paragraph beginning with "Mankind has
valued the design of interior spaces since the dawn of time ...", and
even there, it is difficult for your visitor (or any search engine) to
determine what this site is about.

The keyword or description metatags are almost universally ignored by
search engines any more. Some directories (such as dmoz.org) may
include the wording if you have content on the page which is hard to
paraphrase for a description. But you have to state the purpose of the
site within that first page full of information.

The name of the business, Phoenix Options, does not give a hint what
the site is about, and the logo, which doesn't have an ALT tag is the
only place on this first page that "interior design" or "interior
designers" is even found.

If you want to be found under "interior design", "interior designers",
both of which are VERY BROAD listings with millions of pages there, or
even the more closely geographic listing of Seattle or Washington
interior designers, you need to mention that within the content of the
page.

You might be interested in putting these pages through Search Engine
Watch's Keyword Density Analyzer and see how your important terms are
actually used on the pages. You can find the Analyzer here -
   - http://www.searchengineworld.com/cgi-bin/kwda.cgi 

4. Using text for links, and making smart use of the TITLE and ALT
tags are included above in this discussion.


==================
Redirects and
"Virtual Hosting"
==================

Although you said, "Neither the "real" nor the virtual site are
gateways for each other ...", when I typed phoenixoptions.com (without
the "www" in front of it), I was taken to Techsmiths.com, instead of
to the Phoenix Options site. Google does not consider a virtually
hosted site as a duplicate, but the fact you haven't used a 301
redirect for the Phoenix Options and i-nativity sites for the domain
without the "www" could certainly be confusing to your visitors and
*** MAY *** be misleading to search engine crawlers.

You can fix that easily enough by including the redirect for the
domains minus the "www" with a permanent 301 redirection. I'm not sure
of the method you are using on your IIS server, but this can easily be
handled server-side within the .htaccess file.


When you feel your site is ready, you can also submit to the following
Search engines:


=========================
Search Engine Submission
=========================

Below are top search engines (as determined by Nielsen Net Ratings):
   - http://www.nielsen-netratings.com/


* Google -
   - ://www.google.com/addurl.html

* DMOZ -
   - http://www.dmoz.com/

 * All The Web -
   - http://www.alltheweb.com/help/webmaster/submit_site.html

 * Hotbot & Lycos InSite (requires registration)
   - http://insite.lycos.com/searchservices/

 * Yahoo! -
   - http://docs.yahoo.com/info/suggest/

 * Zeal -
   - http://zeal.com/

Submitting your site to the above will help reach the greatest amount
of potential customers, as well as enhance your chances for inclusion
in Google.


========================== 
Good Information from 
Google & Other Sources 
========================== 
 
You may want to make yourself familiar with all of Google's
information for webmasters.
 
  * Getting Listed - do's, dont's, and link information 
    - ://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html 
 
  * Not Listed after trying - what could be stopping you 
    - ://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html 
 
  * Google's Rank Questions - the basics 
    - ://www.google.com/webmasters/4.html 
 
  * Webmaster Guidelines - make this your bible 
    - ://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html 
 
  * Facts & Fiction - some common misconceptions about Google 
    - ://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html 
 
  * SEOs - determining the good, the bad, and the total waste of
bandwidth
    - ://www.google.com/webmasters/seo.html 
 
  * Google's FAQs - the nitty gritty for webmasters 
    - ://www.google.com/webmasters/faq.html 
 
 
There are other sources which contain information, if only speculation
and anecdotal, about Google and what seems to be happening now.
 
* Webmaster World 
    - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/ 
 
Watch for any postings from a regular by the name of GoogleGuy - this
poster is actually a Google employee and may be the closest you'll
ever get to any 'official' explanation.
 
 
* Search Engine Watch 
    - http://www.searchenginewatch.com/ 
 
Danny Sullivan is considered one of the foremost authorities on search
engine optimization, and if there is information you *should* have,
you can find on finding it here.
 

==============
Summary
==============

While the sites look nice, they are not particularly friendly for
search engines, which crawl websites differently than Web Browsers.
Increasing relevant links to your sites, changing the internal link
structure so it can be found and followed by search engine crawlers,
adding content rich in the terms you under which you want to be found
and making sure you take advantage of the TITLE and ALT tags will take
you a long way toward being crawled and included in Google's search
engine.


Search terms - 
  In addition to the searches explained above in analysis of the
sites' status, I relied on regular bookmarks for search engine
optimization and Google's locations for information on Google's search
index.
 

Best of luck,

Serenata
Google Answers Researcher

The answer was very thorough and detailed.  Some of it was a repeat of
information we already knew (cut/paste from google, as we said in the
question we were familiar with those rules).  The information from the
Link: tool was not valid, there were additional links to the
TechSmiths site.

I appreciate the information about the 301 re-direct, and will
implement that as soon as I can figure out ***HOW***.  It was not your
responsibility to tell me how under this question, this is just a
"whine" for the record.  IIS 5 makes a 301 redirect VERY difficult
unless you're going to redirect an entire site.  We can't see how to
do a redirect of *.phoenixoptions.com to the other site while NOT
forwarding anything else.

We've done the alt tags, we've made the links html instead of
javascript.  We're looking for ways to make the site linked from
outside (it IS and was then listed on DMOZ by the way).  My biggest
problem with this answer is that it will take 3 weeks to 3 MONTHS to
find out if it's right.  Isn't there some way to crawl the site to see
what google sees so we can know if there is a technical problem?

Anyway, you pointed out valid issues, and we're working to resolve
them.  Satisfactory answer.  More information about how to do the 301,
and how to know if google can sucessfully crawl a site would have been
more helpful.

Thanks.