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Q: Backward Links Keep Dropping? ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Backward Links Keep Dropping?
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: chefjeff-ga
List Price: $25.00
Posted: 25 Sep 2003 04:58 PDT
Expires: 25 Oct 2003 04:58 PDT
Question ID: 260039
Hello,
I'm confused as to why my backward links continue to drop on every
Google crawl.I have over 1000 links pointing to my site but the Google
tool bar is only showing 134 backward links, and it keeps dropping.
What am I doing wrong and can you shed some light on what I need to do
to increase my backward links.

Maybe my links are considered link farms but Im not sure...

My URL is http://www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com

Thank you!!
Answer  
Subject: Re: Backward Links Keep Dropping?
Answered By: serenata-ga on 25 Sep 2003 21:52 PDT
 
Hi Chefjeff ~

What you are experiencing is the results of ongoing changes in
Google's algorithms (and other search engines as well) as they strive
to produce the most relevant results for certain search terms.

I can see from your question that you are aware of the importance of
linking with regard to Google's PageRank. In striving to increase the
number of links, webmasters or website owners sometimes lose sight of
what Google's main function is -- to produce the most *relevant*
results to the searcher. Google explains its technology in its "Our
Search: Google Technology"
   - ://www.google.com/technology/index.html


Unfortunately, it sometimes happens that some site owners would rather
put in a lot of time and effort to get a better search engine results
placement (SERPs) than to present the best content. And sometimes
their manipulations even seem to work -- at least for a while.

Every tweak to search engine algorithms moves toward bringing content
relative to the search terms to the front and to eliminate sites that
deliver nothing else but a page full of links or content of little or
no value to the person conducting a particular search.

Since there seems to be a "search engine war" heating up among Google,
Yahoo! and MSN, this can only be good for both the searcher and
website owners who offer content rich with information relevant to
what the searcher is looking for. For more information on how
relevancy is going to be figuring in SERPs, you may want to read
Cynthia Webb's article from the September 8th, 2003, Washington Post,
"Happy Birthday, Google":
   - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41829-2003Sep8.html


I included this background information in order to help you understand
what you are seeing with regard to your backward links and how these
changes may affect you.


==============================
Why Is The Number of
Your Backward Links Dropping?
==============================

Using Google's link:tool, I get the following results:

 - link: www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com - Google returns 459 results
 - link: webdesignsbyjeffrey.com (without the "www") - Google returns
469 results

Notice the space between the colon (:) and the search term above. If
you get rid of the space, the results for either of those terms above
is 134


Performing a search for www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com, I get the
following results:

Yours site (with a PR of 5/10)

and:

Google can show you the following information for this URL:

     "Show Google's cache of www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com 
      Find web pages that are similar to
               www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com 
      Find web pages that link to
               www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com 
      Find web pages that contain the term
               "www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com"
   - ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=www.webdesignsbyjeffrey.com


Clicking on "Find web pages that link to ..." returns 134 results
Clicking on "Find web pages that contain the term ..." returns 703
results.


The reason the majority of links TO your site are contained in
"contain the term" is because THEIR PageRank is less than PR4 or the
links are not a clean link to your page (that is, processed by a
counter script or a redirect script, etc.).

Simply put, pages at link:page listing must have,

       1-clean html link to requested page
       2-page rank 4 or more

Other links - that is, links with a PR less than 4 or links which are
not clean HTML links, will be listed in the "contain the term".

There is a very recent discussion thread on this very issue (the "link
to" and "contain the term" on the Webmaster World Discussion Board,
here:
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/16990.htm


Since you understand the importance of links, here's a quick look at
what Google says:

     "Each time we update our database of web pages, our index
      invariably shifts: We find new sites, we lose some sites,
      and sites ranking may change. Your rank naturally will be
      affected by changes in the ranking of other sites."
      (From "Why does my page's rank keep changing?")
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/4.html


So, sites which are linked TO your site are also affected, which is
why both PageRank and the SERPs are in what often seems to be a 'state
of flux'.

Again, this is good, since new sites are constantly added and sites
change, improving for the better. It's a "win-win" situation for both
the searcher and the web designer or website owner who has either
updated material on his site to make it more relevant to those search
terms or a new site with tons of relevant content.


==============================
Links v. Link Farms
==============================

You said, "Maybe my links are considered link farms but Im not
sure..." This is an  honest statement, and I appreciate your candor.
I'll try to help you determine the difference between a "link" and a
"relative" link.

First, here's what Google says about "link farms and linking schemes":

     "Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your
      site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to
      web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web as your own
      ranking may be affected adversely by those links."
      [From Google's Quality Guidelines - Basic principles]
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html


and

     "... setting up pages/links with the sole purpose of
      fooling search engines may result in permanent removal
      from our index." [From Google's "Reasons your site might
      not appear]
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html#B3


For the sake of comparison, let's take a look at your keyword meta
tags. The first term contained there is "web site designers".

Perform a Google search on that term, without the quotation marks, and
you get over 2 million returns. (By the way, it is generally
acknowledged that 'website' is one word). If you perform a Google
search with "website" as one word, there are over 1 million returns.
In any case, that's a humongous number of returns, and I have no doubt
they'd all like to show up on the first page of returns.

Very often those in the first position will have a PageRank the same
as yours. And they seldom have as many links as yours.

Case in point:
===============

For the search term "website design", (without the quotation marks),
the first return is Level Ten Design. There are only 73 links TO Level
Ten.

But their design is beautifully done. They have good content, bulleted
lists, a good ratio of key words to content, and it's simply done
without a lot of extraneous coding for the search bots to stumble
through. A lot of web designers should take a page from Level Ten's
simplicity and relevance.

What they're doing - they're doing right. And the links TO their site
have relevant content, including links to relevant articles about web
design, SEO, etc.


Now - let's compare the links you have to Web Designs by Jeffrey:

1. Promo Junkie
=================

The first external link is Promo Junkie - which is nothing but a page
full of links and flashing ads. The link to your site is waaaaaaaaay
down below the fold on the left hand side, under "Recommended Links".
Check your web logs and tell me how many people have actually waded
through this page with no information and irritating, BLINKING,
flashing and seemingly unrelated "noise" and found the link to your
site and clicked on it? I'd be surprised if there is even one
generated click to your site a year from this site.

   - http://www.promojunkie.com/web_tools_flash.php

The second link under Promo Junkie is a link from their forum ... how
many click throughs has that produced?


2. $10 Cheap Web Hosting Directory
===================================

Again, your site is listed under the "Web Designers", but below the
fold, along with dozens of others. The same question applies ... How
many click throughs has this site brought you?

   - http://www.10-cheapwebhosting.com/webdesign.php


3. Access Solution
===================

This is just a page of links, and it's pretty obvious the only reason
is for the purpose of having 'links'. Just because it's not currently
recognized as a "link farm"  doesn't mean it won't happen tomorrow or
the next day. Trust me when I say that it *will* happen - and the
discussion forum on Webmaster World is filled with anecdotes about
pages getting delisted for being nothing but links such as these.

   - http://www.acsol.co.za/links_webdesign.htm


Google recommends:

     "Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings.
      A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable
      explaining what you've done to a website that competes
      with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help
      my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?""
      [From Google's Quality Guidelines - Basic principles]
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html


Those pages themselves are nothing but a page of links, and your site
happens to be one of scores of links. The only benefit seems to be one
more notch in your belt (another link), but what real good have those
links done you? More importantly, when pages full of links with no
content on them BUT links cease to matter, what good will they be to
you or your prospective clients?

When you delete those pages, how many relevant links do you have
remaining? If they're not links within a page's content, they're not
going to do you much good.

The time has come to establish relevant links to your site, the kind
of links that Level Ten Design has. Those type of links will
ultimately be of more benefit to you, from both a professional and
SERPs, than links from any ten pages that contain nothing but links.


===========================
Establishing Links
===========================

As stated, Google's PageRank is based on the number of pages which
link to your site.

"The best way to ensure Google finds your site is for your page to be
linked from lots of pages on other sites. Google's robots jump from
page to page on the Web via hyperlinks, so the more sites that link to
you, the more likely it is that we'll find you quickly." (SEE Google's
" How Do I Get My Site Listed on Google? - 2. Submitting Your site")
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html#A1

There are many practical ways of establishing links which are
beneficial to you in your endeavor to get a respectable position
placement on search engines. These methods take time, but they also
help in establishing credibility and help with your page rank.

Approach like-minded or complementary businesses about linking to your
site (with a reciprocal link from your own). This works without
harming search engine positioning or page rank.


A WORD OF WARNING:
==================

Google specifically warns "Don't participate in link schemes designed
to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid
links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web as your own
ranking may be affected adversely by those links." (See Google's
Quality Guidelines - Basic principles)
   - ://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html


It stands to reason that what's good for Google, currently ranked as
the number one search engine is good rule to follow for other search
engines.


Articles on Link Popularity
===========================

A couple of excellent articles on how to establish the right kind of
links are available in Traffick's "Ten Steps to Building Links to Your
Site", Craig Fifield - 5/3/2002
  - http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=77

and "The Right Way to Improve Link Popularity", By Paul J. Bruemmer
-4/14/2002 -
  - http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=41

Notice both articles offer suggestions which can be easily adapted for
use on any website without resorting to link farms. They both point
out the differences and offer easy ways to get started to the kind of
linking search engines prefer.


There are no shortcuts, Jeff, this takes as much time to build as it
took to build the links you're losing as THEY lose PageRank (and
relevancy).


==========================
What Else You Can Do
==========================

To keep on top of what's working, and what's not, you may want to
subscribe to Webmaster World. There's a lot of information in there
which is helpful in keeping your website and links Google-friendly.
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com

Another good source on Search Engine Optimization is Danny Sullivan's
Search Engine Watch
   - http://www.searchenginewatch.com

And Jill Whalen's High Ranking
   - http://www.highranking.com


All of the above have information which you should find useful as you
work to increase your own SERPs.


Search Terms -

Google News:
  - Search Engine Wars

In addition, I relied on a variety of bookmarks and sites which I use
daily in my business to address issues of search engine optimization.


Good luck and best wishes,

Serenata
Google Answers Researcher
Comments  
Subject: Re: Backward Links Keep Dropping?
From: drtandem1-ga on 29 Sep 2003 08:30 PDT
 
Serenata made perfect points with lots of great references.  However,
simply a visit to your page tells me that linking is the least of your
worries.  Then, being the curious fellow I am, I try to view your
source code and it's too large for Notepad.  That confirms what I
already guessed, that the page's file size is huge.  You may want to
brush up on your grammar.  I didn't spell check it, but you have some
very fundamental errors that should be corrected.  Have another person
proof read your page.  I would fix the page before worrying about
links.

I was finally able to discern the slogan "Web sites designed with the
client in mind" in your animation.  I think you may want to take your
words to heart.  If I was a prospective client and visited your web
site's Home page, I would see about seven (7) screens worth of content
from top to bottom.  When I say "worth of content" I mean quantity.
The keyword, so to speak, should be focus.  The client wants to know
things such as price and services.  Your Home page could have ended
with a horizontal line drawn from just under "FAQ" on the left. 
Speaking of horizontal, have you looked at how wide your page is? You
might try looking at your site with an average size monitor.  Also,
many people have other things open such as their "Favorites" window. 
Another thing you may want to consider is that your design alienates
about 5% to 7% of those still using older browsers.  That's a small
percentage, unless you're asking an e-commerce site to lose 7% of
their market.

I'm not sure using other companies' trademarks is such a good idea. 
Especially, when you don't use them as links to those respective
companies.  It implies an affiliation that probably does not exist. 
For instance, if you were an artist, do you think Disney would allow
you to use  images of Mickey Mouse?  The reason they spent the time
and money to trademark them is to keep the mark exclusive.

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