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Q: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase ( No Answer,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
Category: Family and Home
Asked by: bridgelady-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 25 Sep 2003 07:06 PDT
Expires: 25 Oct 2003 07:06 PDT
Question ID: 260080
My grandmother, born in 1905, moved from Minnesota to Oregon in the
1940s.  She often used the term "black as Coaley's butt." She was
usually telling us that the floor was dirty, a room was dark, or she
could not see my face for the dirt on it from playing outside.  How do
you spell Coaley (I do not know whether it might be Coalie, Coaly, or
even begin with the letter K), and where does this slang phrase come
from and what was its original meaning?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: pinkfreud-ga on 25 Sep 2003 08:42 PDT
 
I believe this may be a variation of the old slang phrase "black as
Toby's butt," which apparently originated as a racial reference
("Toby" was a common slave name.)

Here are some variants of the "Toby's butt" phrase:

"The quarter moon had set behind tall evergreens, and it was black as
Toby's butt."

All Fiction Original Archives
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:EXoSgY7iYw0J:www.afoarchive.com/Jan01/Ferryboat.txt

"As black as Toby's arse 

 As common as muck 

 Hard as the hobs of hell 

 My jaw wobbled like a ferry's fender"

University of Louisville: Merseytalk
http://www.louisville.edu/~tavan001/Merseytalk17.html 

"He could actually look out over the rocks and into the cove, although
it was dark as Toby's arse, and thick of fog."

Bryce Muir: High Flyers
http://www.brycemuir.com/HIGHFLYERS/041-GROUNDEDOUT.htm

"The only thing my parents left me when they got killed was their
black cat, Toby. They named him after the old expression "Black as
Toby's bottom."

Jimmer's Music, Literature, and Life  Web Page
http://www.geocities.com/dedhedjimmer.geo/hubcaps.htm

"Lots of calluses and black as Toby's you know what."

Yahoo Groups: Dear Crabby
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dearcrabby/message/1561?source=1

">>The term has been used since the in the 1700's. [Slang and
Euphemism,
>>ed. by Richard A. Spears]
>>
> It wasn't considered a racial slur until the politically correct
> mid 20th century, when it was decided that the Joel Chandler Harris
> books were fundamentally racist. [see tarbaby]

So the term 'Toby' was used in a respectful manner until the
'politically correct' movement of the 1950's perverted the meaning
according to Jet.

That includes the saying 'Black as Toby's ass'?  It must."

Post from alt.flame newsgroup
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns91F5CCC038966mypostdammet%40207.14.113.17&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Here are the only similar mentions of "Coalie" that I could find:

"Well, it seemed like you had barely dozed off when the drone of
voices penetrated the fog and you sensed it to be near morning. Though
still as black as Coalie's coat."

THE DEER MEADOW, THE ROUGH HILL, AND THE CROW'S LANDING
http://www.eng.uci.edu/students/mpontius/hartley/56-60_i.html

"Slick as a ribbon 

 Black as a coalie's ass 

 Happy as a tick on a fat dog" 

http://members.aol.com/GLKS/colloq.html

"COLY [,  'collie' ; coaly.
'’m lookin for a good coly. There's a good coly at him. The ould black
coly that minded the sheep (B.).
Go an' wash yer face, it's as black as coaly."

A VOCABULARY OF THE ANGLO-MANX DIALECT
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/am1924/pt_c.htm

I hope another Researcher will be able answer your question fully. I
could not find the origin of your phrase, nor any evidence tying the
"Toby" references to "Coalie."
Subject: Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: jackburton-ga on 25 Sep 2003 11:52 PDT
 
"--The following is another example of merging of possibly two
different words which are similar and therefore associated as being
the same. First we come to COAL from OE COL, "a piece of carbon
glowing without flame; a piece of burnt wood, charred remnant" (825
a.d.). Circa 1000, there appears the phrase BLACK AS COAL, akin to
COALY (koe-lee"), "covered with coal; black like coal" (1565).
Obviously there is an associated between soot and blackness.
. But in 1310, there is the verb COLLOW (pronounced "kah-lo"), akin to
KOLLOW, "to blacken, begrime", akin to COLLIED ("kah-lid") and COLLY
("kah-lih"), both of which refer to grime and blackness circa 1590.
Cf. Skt. KAALA, KAALII and KAALI ("kah-luh", "kah-lee" and "kah-lih",
respectively), meaning "black". OED suggests the possibility that Eng.
COLLIE (the dog) may also be related to blackness."
http://www.geocities.com/sanskritpuns99/influence.html
Subject: Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: voila-ga on 27 Sep 2003 15:12 PDT
 
“Collie” was a term bestowed upon many herding dogs in Scotland, for
the Welsh word “coelio” means trustful and faithful. Both “colley” and
“coaley” indicated the black-faced sheep found in Scotland.
http://home.revealed.net/walkoway/beardie.htm

coeli or coelo (from the Greek word koiloma): opening or cavity 
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/allabout/Nameroots.shtml
Subject: Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: hlabadie-ga on 28 Sep 2003 09:21 PDT
 
Apparently the phrase is an eroded form of collier's-butty (variant of
butty-collier), by substitution of coal[e]y for collier, an example of
evolution through misunderstanding, facilitated by geographical
separation from the source, and the process of vulgarization.


The Oxford English Dictionary gives:

collier
I One whose occupation or trade is to procure or supply coal.
  4. one who works in a coal-mine: a coal-miner

III attrib. and comb.: as collier-brig, -ship;...

    1863 KINGSLEY Water-bab V. 211 The butties that knock about the
poor collier-boys.

coaly, ey sb. colloq. A coal-heaver.


SLANG AND ITS ANALOGUES, Farmer, J.S., Henley, W.H., Arno, NY, 1970,
one volume reprint of the original 7 volumes, 1890-1904 (Distributed
by Crown).

coaley, subs. (common). - A coal-heaver, or porter.


OED
butty (dial.)

1. a confederate, companion, 'mate'.
2. a middleman between proprietors of mines and workmen, who engages
to work the mine and raise coal or ore at so much per ton.
3. comb. and Attrib.,: butty-collier, -system, also butty-gang...



hlabadie-ga

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