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| Subject:
Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
Category: Family and Home Asked by: bridgelady-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
25 Sep 2003 07:06 PDT
Expires: 25 Oct 2003 07:06 PDT Question ID: 260080 |
My grandmother, born in 1905, moved from Minnesota to Oregon in the 1940s. She often used the term "black as Coaley's butt." She was usually telling us that the floor was dirty, a room was dark, or she could not see my face for the dirt on it from playing outside. How do you spell Coaley (I do not know whether it might be Coalie, Coaly, or even begin with the letter K), and where does this slang phrase come from and what was its original meaning? |
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| There is no answer at this time. |
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| Subject:
Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: pinkfreud-ga on 25 Sep 2003 08:42 PDT |
I believe this may be a variation of the old slang phrase "black as
Toby's butt," which apparently originated as a racial reference
("Toby" was a common slave name.)
Here are some variants of the "Toby's butt" phrase:
"The quarter moon had set behind tall evergreens, and it was black as
Toby's butt."
All Fiction Original Archives
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:EXoSgY7iYw0J:www.afoarchive.com/Jan01/Ferryboat.txt
"As black as Toby's arse
As common as muck
Hard as the hobs of hell
My jaw wobbled like a ferry's fender"
University of Louisville: Merseytalk
http://www.louisville.edu/~tavan001/Merseytalk17.html
"He could actually look out over the rocks and into the cove, although
it was dark as Toby's arse, and thick of fog."
Bryce Muir: High Flyers
http://www.brycemuir.com/HIGHFLYERS/041-GROUNDEDOUT.htm
"The only thing my parents left me when they got killed was their
black cat, Toby. They named him after the old expression "Black as
Toby's bottom."
Jimmer's Music, Literature, and Life Web Page
http://www.geocities.com/dedhedjimmer.geo/hubcaps.htm
"Lots of calluses and black as Toby's you know what."
Yahoo Groups: Dear Crabby
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dearcrabby/message/1561?source=1
">>The term has been used since the in the 1700's. [Slang and
Euphemism,
>>ed. by Richard A. Spears]
>>
> It wasn't considered a racial slur until the politically correct
> mid 20th century, when it was decided that the Joel Chandler Harris
> books were fundamentally racist. [see tarbaby]
So the term 'Toby' was used in a respectful manner until the
'politically correct' movement of the 1950's perverted the meaning
according to Jet.
That includes the saying 'Black as Toby's ass'? It must."
Post from alt.flame newsgroup
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns91F5CCC038966mypostdammet%40207.14.113.17&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
Here are the only similar mentions of "Coalie" that I could find:
"Well, it seemed like you had barely dozed off when the drone of
voices penetrated the fog and you sensed it to be near morning. Though
still as black as Coalie's coat."
THE DEER MEADOW, THE ROUGH HILL, AND THE CROW'S LANDING
http://www.eng.uci.edu/students/mpontius/hartley/56-60_i.html
"Slick as a ribbon
Black as a coalie's ass
Happy as a tick on a fat dog"
http://members.aol.com/GLKS/colloq.html
"COLY [, 'collie' ; coaly.
'm lookin for a good coly. There's a good coly at him. The ould black
coly that minded the sheep (B.).
Go an' wash yer face, it's as black as coaly."
A VOCABULARY OF THE ANGLO-MANX DIALECT
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/am1924/pt_c.htm
I hope another Researcher will be able answer your question fully. I
could not find the origin of your phrase, nor any evidence tying the
"Toby" references to "Coalie." |
| Subject:
Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: jackburton-ga on 25 Sep 2003 11:52 PDT |
"--The following is another example of merging of possibly two
different words which are similar and therefore associated as being
the same. First we come to COAL from OE COL, "a piece of carbon
glowing without flame; a piece of burnt wood, charred remnant" (825
a.d.). Circa 1000, there appears the phrase BLACK AS COAL, akin to
COALY (koe-lee"), "covered with coal; black like coal" (1565).
Obviously there is an associated between soot and blackness.
. But in 1310, there is the verb COLLOW (pronounced "kah-lo"), akin to
KOLLOW, "to blacken, begrime", akin to COLLIED ("kah-lid") and COLLY
("kah-lih"), both of which refer to grime and blackness circa 1590.
Cf. Skt. KAALA, KAALII and KAALI ("kah-luh", "kah-lee" and "kah-lih",
respectively), meaning "black". OED suggests the possibility that Eng.
COLLIE (the dog) may also be related to blackness."
http://www.geocities.com/sanskritpuns99/influence.html |
| Subject:
Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: voila-ga on 27 Sep 2003 15:12 PDT |
Collie was a term bestowed upon many herding dogs in Scotland, for the Welsh word coelio means trustful and faithful. Both colley and coaley indicated the black-faced sheep found in Scotland. http://home.revealed.net/walkoway/beardie.htm coeli or coelo (from the Greek word koiloma): opening or cavity http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/allabout/Nameroots.shtml |
| Subject:
Re: Source and spelling of an English slang phrase
From: hlabadie-ga on 28 Sep 2003 09:21 PDT |
Apparently the phrase is an eroded form of collier's-butty (variant of
butty-collier), by substitution of coal[e]y for collier, an example of
evolution through misunderstanding, facilitated by geographical
separation from the source, and the process of vulgarization.
The Oxford English Dictionary gives:
collier
I One whose occupation or trade is to procure or supply coal.
4. one who works in a coal-mine: a coal-miner
III attrib. and comb.: as collier-brig, -ship;...
1863 KINGSLEY Water-bab V. 211 The butties that knock about the
poor collier-boys.
coaly, ey sb. colloq. A coal-heaver.
SLANG AND ITS ANALOGUES, Farmer, J.S., Henley, W.H., Arno, NY, 1970,
one volume reprint of the original 7 volumes, 1890-1904 (Distributed
by Crown).
coaley, subs. (common). - A coal-heaver, or porter.
OED
butty (dial.)
1. a confederate, companion, 'mate'.
2. a middleman between proprietors of mines and workmen, who engages
to work the mine and raise coal or ore at so much per ton.
3. comb. and Attrib.,: butty-collier, -system, also butty-gang...
hlabadie-ga |
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