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Subject:
Need help acquiring a .biz domain...
Category: Computers > Internet Asked by: mrubenzahl-ga List Price: $25.00 |
Posted:
14 Jun 2002 12:26 PDT
Expires: 20 Jun 2002 10:42 PDT Question ID: 26015 |
When the .biz domains became available, I made an "IP claim." Several others also placed IP claims, understandable since we are not the only company with this name. We received a claim and in some drawing, were third in line. Someone else sought to acquire the name and the IP claim processes began. We were third in the priority queue and finally we bubbled up to the top so we have a limited time to make our claim. The bureaucracy of this system is pretty awful but basically, I had to choose an arbitrator. They charge $1100 to arbitrate it. We do have IP rights to this name so I am guessing we would prevail but do not know for sure and do not know if there will be additional costs as the process moves on. Apparently the name was applied for by a domain registrar (squatter, I think) who wants to sell it to us for the price we would pay the arbitration company. My question: Should I settle with the squatters? Will that end it or can someone else then move in and challenge my ownership? Should I proceed through the arbitration process? We do want the name. I don't think it is worth it but company managers do and my job is to get it, so I am trying to learn the simplest way to secure it. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
The following answer was rejected by the asker (they received a refund for the question). | |
Subject:
Re: Need help acquiring a .biz domain...
Answered By: missy-ga on 14 Jun 2002 14:49 PDT Rated: ![]() |
Hi there! Ugh, what a nightmare for you. I'm so sorry you have to battle it out for a name you have rights for. With a squatter, no less! While it might seem tempting to settle with the squatter to get him out of your hair, you probably shouldn't. Here's why: There are specific rules governing arbitration of a domain name dispute: Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy http://www.icann.org/dndr/udrp/policy.htm You say your name was acquired by a Registrar solely for the purposes of selling it back to you. According to the ICANN Policy Paragraph 4(b)(1): "(i) circumstances indicating that you have registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the trademark or service mark or to a competitor of that complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of your documented out-of-pocket costs directly related to the domain name" ...this is indicative of a "bad faith" use of your name. This is certainly enough to swing the arbitration your way. The decision of the arbitrator is binding to both parties - once the decision is made in your favor, that's it. The squatter cannot file another dispute to wrest the name back from you, and this also makes it difficult for anyone else to try to take it from you. That's not to say that the squatter couldn't sue to get it back. It seems that the courts are not bound by ICANN decisions - however, an ICANN decision in your favor as well as the inability of the squatter to provide ample proof of rights to the name would likely result in the case never being allowed to proceed, or if by some odd mischance a judge deigned to hear it, dismissed. Unless there is some enormous significance attached to the value of the name (for example, a highly recognizable and much sought after name like CocaCola), most squatters won't take things that far. They take their lumps from the arbitrator and move on to the next name to sit upon. Settling with the squatters would be detrimental for two reasons: 1) if someone were to attempt to take the name from you at a later date, it would weaken your position of "IP rights". With a binding arbitration agreement in hand, obtained by adhering to the rules, future squatters will be reluctant to take you on. Without it, you may end up paying for arbitration eventually anyway. 2) the name may not even be worth what the squatters are demanding anyway. The .biz TLD is still quite new, it seems unlikely that the name would be worth that much right now. Remember, in paying for arbitration, you're not paying for the name itself, you're paying for the assistance in protecting your IP rights. The value of the latter vastly outweighs the value of the former, IMO, especially if there is a strong chance that someone else will try to take the name away. A little protection now is far better than a lot more headaches later. You might, before you make a decision on how to proceed, think about having the name appraised. I handled a domain name appraisal question last month, which you can view here: https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=16488 The answer lists several appraisal services, some free, some for a fee, most not even requiring that you officially own the domain to find out what it is worth. An appraisal certificate indicating a lower name value than what the squatter is trying to wring from you can also significantly strengthen your position. If you have already submitted your complaint, and wish to submit an appraisal certificate, it may entail an additional $250 filing fee, as indicated here: Paragraph 7 http://www.arb-forum.com/domains/RDRP/rules.asp If you haven't yet submitted the complaint, or have done so less than 5 days ago, no additional fee will be required. I've also gathered a few tips for you to think about, to prevent this sort of situation in the future. It's not 100% fool-proof, but it beats the alternative of having to submit to arbitration constantly to shoo the squatters away: Protect Your Website from CyberSquatters http://www.betterwhois.com/cybersquatters.htm It's Time to Protect YOUR Domain! http://www.soho.org/Technology_Articles/protect_domain.htm I hope this has been helpful to you. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to ask for a clarification, I will be happy to help you. I wish you much luck! missy-ga | |
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Subject:
Re: Need help acquiring a .biz domain...
From: webhosting-ga on 14 Jun 2002 21:02 PDT |
Dear Questioner, Having been in the domain registration business for several years (I own http://www.needa.com), and involved in disputes (both sides), I would respectfully like for you to consider the following. First, please recognize that your dispute does not fall directly under the Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) as stated above. Your dispute falls under the STOP rules for new .biz registrations as implemented by Neulevel, the .biz registrar: A complete overview of the rules and process is located here: http://www.neulevel.biz/stop_overview/index.html The STOP rules are based on the UDRP, and indeed the same basic level of proofs are required to win a case, but they are not identical. In response to the limit of arbitration fee, it will stay the same. The only caveat is that if after your initial claim submission and the Respondant's response, if you decide you want to submit additional information the arbitration panel may charge you to accept any secondary submissions (this is at the discretion of the abritraiton panel, the Panel may very well choose to not accept secondary submissions). You could avoid this by making sure your initial dispute claim is full and complete. Both arbitrators (not sure which one is handling your case but it will either be the WIPO or the NAF) provide full information about fees on their websites (listed below). I think you should settle with the domain holder. I am familiar with severl domain dispute cases (including the .biz STOP cases). Unfortunately, mere suspicion of "cybersquatting" is hardly enough to make a claim. There has to be strong evidence of intentional harm. It appears from your statement "several companies use this name" that the domain in question is probably of a generic nature. If so, it may be extremely difficult to prove "bad faith" in your case. Even IF you can demonstrate "bad faith" it will not be enough to win your case. You will have the further burden to establish your exclusive rights on the domain or term in question (i.e. documentation that the domain is dispute is "confusingly similar" to your trademarks) -- AND that the current owner does not have any legitimate right to use the domain. Again, with generic names this can be extremely difficult. I recommend you review domain dispute case history and proceeding information in detail directly from the two arbitrators: WIPO: http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/cases/index.html National Arbitration Forum: http://www.arb-forum.com/domains/ You should be able to find specific rulings related to STOP disputes. I have copied some cases excerpts for you to consider -- in each of these cases, the Complainant (that would be the entity wanting to win the domain name away from the Respondent) lost. These cases are · Car Toys Inc .v. Informa Unlimited Inc [NAF Case No. F93682] There the domain name in issue was <cartoys.net>. The Complainant had sold automobile accessory products and services since 1987 under the CAR TOYS trademark, which was a US registered trademark / service mark. The Complainant also owned the domain names <cartoys.com> and <cartoys.org>. The Respondent was in the business of acquiring domain names of common words for development and sale. The Panel held: Car Toys Inc., has not proven that Informa has no legitimate interests in respect of the domain name <cartoys.net>. The CAR TOYS trademark is not fanciful or arbitrary, and Car Toys has submitted no evidence to establish either fame or secondary meaning in its mark such that customers are likely to associate <cartoys.net> with CAR TOYS. Informa has demonstrated that the name is in use elsewhere. The arbitrator finds, therefore, that Informa has rebutted Car Toys' arguments ...and does have a legitimate interest in the domain name. · In the domain dispute case concerning <concierge.com>, the Panel ruled that "Here, even though the trademark and the name are all but identical, the Panel has determined that the first person or entity to register the domain name should prevail in circumstances such as these where the domain name is a generic word" (National Arb. Forum, Case # 93547) · In Perricone v. Hirst, concerning <wrinklecure.com>, the Panel issued a finding that the first entity to register descriptive, generic domain names should prevail absent bad faith in the registration. (National Arb. Forum, Case # 95104) · In domain dispute case concerning <prom.com>, the Panel rejects Complainant's contention that its use of the generic word PROM is somehow "fanciful" or "suggestive" as those terms are understood in trademark law. PROM Software, Inc. v. Reflex Publishing, Inc. (WIPO Case D2001-1154) · In Energy Source Inc .v. Your Energy Source, the domain name was <yourenergysource.com>. In relation to legitimate interests, the Respondent asserted that it was making fair use of generic terms. The Panel found: Respondent has persuasively shown that the domain name is comprised of generic and/or descriptive terms and, in any event, is not exclusively associated with Complainant's business. [NAF Case No. 96364] · In Drew Bernstein v. Action Advertising, Inc (WIPO Case No. D2000-0706), the domain in dispute was <lipservice.com>. The Panel concludes: Certainly the Respondent had constructive knowledge of the Complainants' federally registered trademark, whatever the state of its actual knowledge. However, the evidence also shows that the term "lip service" used in the Respondent's Domain Name is not an arbitrary or coined term nor a distinctive trademark, but a common English phrase susceptible of more than one meaning or connotation, which can be and is used in many commercial contexts ... For this reason, the Panel finds that the evidence is insufficient to establish bad faith registration and use under Paragraph 4(b)(iv) of the [UDRP] Policy. --- My point being that case history seems to show that you would need a very strong case to be able to WIN against a current domain holder because the burder of proof rests on you. You have to establish ~all~ three separate issues to have a valid claim on a domain. (The current domain holder is therefore already at an advantage) If you have not yet engaged with arbitration and you do have opportunity to buy the domain name at the exact cost of arbitration (which seems to be what you are saying) I recommend you to buy the name. It is a sure thing. It is faster. It meets your stated goal of acquiring the domain name. Otherwise, I believe you risk being out the money, and possibly not getting the domain name. Thank you and good luck. |
Subject:
Re: Need help acquiring a .biz domain...
From: xemion-ga on 15 Jun 2002 22:54 PDT |
I also have lots of experience on both sides of domain disputes. The main key is the "bad faith" aspect. Offering to sell the domain to you does not constitute as bad faith in done in response to an offer from you to buy it. If you say "sell me this name" and they say "for $5,000", there's nothing wrong with that. But if you say "I want this name for my business" without offering to purchase it and they say "for $5,000", it looks bad for them. That's the basic "bad faith" thing. The other big problem here is that .biz domain used "IP claims" as you mentioned. This means that they already have the rights to this name. You may also have rights, but they got there first or won the drawing, etc.. Since they also have a claim to the name it's going to be especially hard to take it from them unless they specifically offered to sell it to you first. In this case, I would have to agree with webhosting and recommend against arbitration. I can assure that if the arbitration attempt fails (which is likely in this case), their price will greatly rise. I can also assure that there is very little value to a ".biz" name, no matter what an appraisal might say. I have personal experience I know for a fact that a ".biz" is not very valuable. Granted, some stupid idiot might by one for a high price (though I have not heard of it), it's not really worth it. I hope my comment has been of a little help. Thank you. xemion-ga |
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