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Subject:
Rules for commas in the time of Swift
Category: Reference, Education and News Asked by: apteryx-ga List Price: $6.67 |
Posted:
05 Oct 2003 14:39 PDT
Expires: 04 Nov 2003 13:39 PST Question ID: 262925 |
As a college student I wrote at least one A paper and an exam on _Gullivers Travels_, but I never actually read the book until now. I wish I had read it while I was in school because there are a lot of questions Id like to ask of someone knowledgeable in the work and the period, and I havent been able to find answers to them on the Web, although there is certainly plenty of material on this work and its author. Heres one: Swifts use of commas. It is hardly remarkable that writing styles have changed across two continents and cultures and 277 years since the work was published, nor do I suppose that Jonathan Swifts style of punctuation was in any way unique for his time and place. What I am curious about is something specific: I would like to see the rules he was following. What precise rules of grammar and punctuation would he have been taught with respect to the use of commas? I am looking for a set of rules on the proper use of commas in 18th century English and not an ex post facto inference of a pattern derived from his writing; I can do that myself. If the rule was to follow Latin grammar, then I would like to see what was considered at the time to be Latins rules for the use of commas. I could not help noticing that the patterns in his writing seemed to resemble punctuation in German more closely than punctuation in contemporary American or even British English. Here is a sample. These passages are taken from Chapter V and are part of a lengthy and almost too-scathing-to-be-satirical disquisition on the legal profession, addressed by our narrator Gulliver to the king of the equine Houyhnhnms. I said, there was a society of men among us, bred up from their youth in the art of proving, by words multiplied for the purpose, that white is black, and black is white, according as they are paid. To this society all the rest of the people are slaves. . . . It is a maxim among these lawyers, that whatever has been done before, may legally be done again; and therefore they take special care to record all the decisions formerly made against common justice, and the general reason of mankind. . . . It is likewise to be observed, that this society has a peculiar cant and jargon of their own, that no other mortal can understand, and wherein all their laws are written, which they take special care to multiply; whereby they have wholly confounded the very essence of truth and falsehood, of right and wrong; so that it will take thirty years to decide, whether the field left me by my ancestors for six generations belongs to me, or to a stranger three hundred miles off. (Footnote: This work was the source of the term Yahoo. The Yahoos are the despicable brutes of humans, fit for nothing but menial labor, at the bottom of the social scale in the land of the Houyhnhnms, who appear to represent an ideal of virtue and reason.) The answer I am looking for is not - commentary on the fact that language changes - explanation of the meaning and use of the commas in the passage - information about rules of grammar and punctuation in modern English - a repunctuation of the passage according to modern rules I simply want to know what rules Swift was obeying when he punctuated his text in that fashion. If you had asked him, See this comma? By what rule did you put it there?, then, assuming that he knew his grammar (which, as a well-educated man of his time, he undoubtedly did), what would he have cited in response? The answer almost certainly has to come from 18th-century educational materials or information derived from them. Thank you, Apteryx |
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Subject:
Re: Rules for commas in the time of Swift
Answered By: hlabadie-ga on 06 Oct 2003 22:35 PDT Rated: |
Robert Monteith probably summed up the contemporary rules of punctuation in his book of 1704. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be an electronic text available. One can read Swift's letter to Harley concerning the establishment of an Academy to reform English. It deals mainly with the eradication words and phrases that displeased Dean Swift. Punctuation in English since 1600 http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~wilkins/writing/Resources/essays/punctuation_hist.html "It was Ben Jonson, in his /English Grammar, /a work composed about 1617 and published posthumously in 1640, who first recommended syntactical punctuation in England. An early example is the 1625 edition of Francis Bacon's /Essayes; /and from the Restoration onward syntactical punctuation was in general use. Influential treatises on syntactical punctuation were published by Robert Monteith in 1704 and Joseph Robertson in 1795. Excessive punctuation was common in the 18th century: at its worst it used commas with every subordinate clause and separable phrase. Vestiges of this attitude are found in a handbook published in London as late as 1880." *A Brief History of English Usage* (in: Webster?s Dictionary of English Usage, Merriam-Webster Inc. Publishers, Springfield, Mass., 1989) http://angli02.kgw.tu-berlin.de/lexicography/data/B_HIST_EU.html ""Bullokar, out of his interest in regularizing and reforming, had been moved to write a grammar of English. And the vocabulary controversy?the introduction of inkhorn terms by the enrichers and the revival of English archaisms by the purists (of whom the poet Edmund Spenser was one)." [...] "More grammar books were also published at this time. Ben Jonson's appeared posthumously in 1640. It is short and sketchy and is intended for the use of foreigners. Its grammar is descriptive, but Jonson hung his observations on a Latin grammatical framework. It also seems to be the first English grammar book to quote the Roman rhetorician Quintilian's dictum ''Custom is the most certain mistress of language."" [...] "There was evidently a considerable amount of general interest in things grammatical among men of letters, for Addison, Steele, and Swift all treated grammar in one way or another in /The Tatler/ and /The Spectator/ in 1710, 1711, and 1712. In 1712 Swift published yet another proposal for an English academy (it came within a whisker of succeeding): John Oldmixon attacked Swift's proposal in the same year. Public interest must have helped create a market for the grammar books which began appearing with some frequency about this same time. And if controversy fuels sales, grammarians knew it: they were perfectly* *willing to emphasize their own advantages by denigrating their predecessors, sometimes in abusive terms." *Some Benchmarks** On the Way to Our Present-Day Rules* http://www.m-w.com/undcon/gilman.htm "*1700 * A schoolmaster named A. Lane publishes the first grammar intended to teach English to native speakers. He claims that "the true End and Use of /Grammar/ is how to speak and write well and learnedly in a Language already known, according to the unalterable Rules of right Reason." *1712 * Jonathan Swift publishes his proposal for the establishment of an English Academy." MISCELLANEOUS http://www.partnership.mmu.ac.uk/punctuation/Misc.html "Pointing is the disposal of speech into certain members for more articulate and distinct reading and circumstantiating of writs and papers. It rests wholly and solely on concordance, and necessitates a knowledge of grammar. (Robert Monteith)" Spectator Text Project: Complete Tatler http://tabula.rutgers.edu/tatler/ *Swift, Jonathan, 1667-1745. Proposal for Correcting, Improving and Ascertaining the English Tongue; in a Letter To the Most Honourable Robert Earl of Oxford and Mortimer, Lord High Treasurer of Great Britain.* http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/perl/toccer-new?id=SwiTong.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=all SEARCH TERMS ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=18th+Century+English+grammar ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Swift+English+Academy+Tatler ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=punctuation+English+history ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Monteith+punctuation hlabadie-ga |
apteryx-ga
rated this answer:
Many thanks, hlabadie. Just what I wanted to know. Apteryx |
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Subject:
Re: Rules for commas in the time of Swift
From: hlabadie-ga on 05 Oct 2003 20:43 PDT |
Evidently, it was the custom since Ben Jonson's The English Grammar to punctuate with commas every subordinate clause. "It was Ben Jonson, in his English Grammar, a work composed about 1617 and published posthumously in 1640, who first recommended syntactical punctuation in England. An early example is the 1625 edition of Francis Bacon's Essayes; and from the Restoration onward syntactical punctuation was in general use. Influential treatises on syntactical punctuation were published by Robert Monteith in 1704 and Joseph Robertson in 1795. Excessive punctuation was common in the 18th century: at its worst it used commas with every subordinate clause and separable phrase. Vestiges of this attitude are found in a handbook published in London as late as 1880." Punctuation in English since 1600 http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~wilkins/writing/Resources/essays/punctuation_hist.html It is notable that Swift had proposed that an English Academy be founded to regularize English. hlabadie-ga |
Subject:
Re: Rules for commas in the time of Swift
From: pinkfreud-ga on 05 Oct 2003 21:23 PDT |
Howdy, Apteryx! Thought you might appreciate this, especially the last sentence: "Just as we don't wander about speaking Shakespeare's English on the street (unless we're theater geeks, in which case we should prepare to be beaten on by the jocks during lunch break), neither do we punctuate exactly as we did in the past. Punctuation is still on the move, as each era and medium places its own mark (get it? Huh?) on the format. In the 18th century, for example, every subordinate clause, and separable phrase, was separated by a comma, whether, in fact, the sentence, as a whole, needed that many commas, or not. This may explain why so much writing of the time gives modern readers a headache; reading it is like driving a car solely by popping the clutch." http://www.scalzi.com/millittleinvention.htm |
Subject:
Re: Rules for commas in the time of Swift
From: apteryx-ga on 06 Oct 2003 21:20 PDT |
Excellent! So, hlabadie, why don't you post your response as the answer? I think you've got it. I read the whole entry you cited and consider it to be an entirely satisfactory explanation. Hey there, Pink--what an interesting page you steered me to! Thank you for the link not just to facts but also to commentary, and a rich trove of other essays as well. You must know all the choicest spots on the Web. Thank you, Apteryx |
Subject:
Re: Rules for commas in the time of Swift
From: hlabadie-ga on 08 Oct 2003 06:12 PDT |
Happy to have been helpful. Thanks for the rating. hlabadie-ga |
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