Google Answers Logo
View Question
Q: Search for birthdate ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   3 Comments )
Subject: Search for birthdate
Category: Family and Home > Families
Asked by: beajane-ga
List Price: $25.00
Posted: 09 Oct 2003 19:21 PDT
Expires: 08 Nov 2003 18:21 PST
Question ID: 264780
I am searching for the correct birthdate for Phoebe Jane Haines born
in the Province of Ontario in either 1882 OR 1883.  Her father's name
was John Haines and her mother's name was Ann Haines nee Joynt.

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 09 Oct 2003 20:00 PDT
Do you happen to know Phoebe's husband's name (if any)?

I found a record of parents with same names that have two children but
neither of the names listed are "Phoebe".


Clarification of Question by beajane-ga on 10 Oct 2003 00:07 PDT
Phoebe Jane Haines married George B. Stanton in Manitoba somewhere
around 1905 or 1906. could you tell me the names you did find so I can
verify this is thew correct family ?
This was my grandmother and I need the info for a gravestone.
I also wonder if her death certificate which is where I got the
information as to the province of her birth is in error.   Perhaps she
was actually born in Manitoba.   The family later lived in the Birtle

Clarification of Question by beajane-ga on 10 Oct 2003 15:44 PDT
I will try to add the required information
1. Phoebe Jane Haines birthdate is listed on her death certificate as Nov.30,  
   1883 and in Ontario 
2. Death date was December 23, 1957 in Prince George, B.C.  Her age was given 
   as 75 years.  Either her age or her birth year have to be incorrect as it 
   does not add up. Also there is a possibility of her having been born in 
   Manitoba instead of Ontario, since I believe she grew up around Birtle, Man.
3. Do not have George B Stanton's birth or death dates handy but can obtain 
   them if necessary.
4. Had three living sons - Cornelius (born in 1909) Thomas (Born 1912) Wilbur 
   (born 1918.)

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 11 Oct 2003 13:57 PDT
Do you happen to know the names of any of Phoebe's brothers and/or sisters.


Clarification of Question by beajane-ga on 11 Oct 2003 14:09 PDT
Re request for information on Phoebe Jane Haines' siblings:
She was part of a large family but I do not know most of their names
She had sisters named Gladys and Bessie (which might have been
Elizabeth I suppose, and one of her brothers was named Wilber. I will
try to find out more but this is all I have for right now.

Also with regard to her husband, Beorge B. Stanton.   His birthdate
was 1881 in England and death date January 13, 1948 in Burns Lake B.C.

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 13 Oct 2003 18:36 PDT
I am posting the infromation I was able to find in the comment section
for review as you requested.


Clarification of Question by beajane-ga on 14 Oct 2003 01:00 PDT
Thank you, tutuzdad-ga, for the effort you have put into this search. 
I know that you have found the right family but your theory is
incorrect. I know that the name Alberta Haines is correct, especially
as the name of her husband is now known to me.  John R. Haines is
probably correct  and I am sure there was an Annie among the siblings,
but as I stated I do know that there were also a number of other
children ie: Phoebe Jane, Wilbur OR Wilber, Bessie and Gladys.
Wilbur died in World War I and as a child I met both Gladys and
Bessie. I think Bessie was the youngest.  Is it possible to access the
1891 census or whatever the next one was?   Are there any other
avenues you can pursue on this as I really need this birthdate
clarified ?

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 11:40 PDT
The trick is going to be to find a solid source on at least one of the
known family members. This may lead us to others or to living family
members who know more. Perhaps we could try to pursue Wilbur/Wilber's
military records. Do you know what military service he was inducted
into? Where he might have fought/died? etc?


Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 12:18 PDT
Dear beajane-ga;


His name was WALTER WILBUR JOYNT HAINES (on his induction records he
reported his own name as W. WILBUR JOSEPH HAINES) and he was the son
of a farmer named John B. Haines. His date of birth is listed as April
27, 1894 and he was a "clerk" by trade. He enlisted in the Canadian
Over-Seas Expeditionary Force through a recruiter located at Waskada,
Manitoba on January 3, 1916 at the age of 21 years 8 months. He was
inducted into the military on January 8, 1916.


Here are the images of the actual records in what is presumably his
own handwriting:

The unfortunate news is that this has not immediately led me to anyone
who knows more about your family, but from a nostalgia standpoint I
thought you would be interested in seeing these records anyway.

Best regards;

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 14:02 PDT
I did find the 1901 Census for the area your family hailed from
(Wilber said on his enlistement application that he was born in
Brandon, Manitoba) but it is not indexed by name. Without knowing more
than we already know, one would have to physicaly pour over 143,000
images to know if the is an entry for a certain individual. I am
looking to see if any other census after the 1881 census has been


Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 14:23 PDT
Reviewing my data I just realized my error re: Annie vs Phoebe Ann
theory. I inadvertently overlooked or lost sight of the middle name
"Jane" in her name. At any rate, you mentioned a gravestone. Do you
know where Phoebe is buried by chance? If not, I believe I might have
found her burial place.


Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 14:37 PDT
If your type in the surname STANTON in this database:

You will see that a PHOEBE JANE STANTON was buried on December 27,
1957 in the Prince George Municipal Cemetery, specifically in the
grave located here:
PLOT 0011 NW

We're getting there - slowly but surely!


Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 14:49 PDT
Here is the record of Phoebe's death dated December 23, 1957 at the
age of 73. This would likley put her birth in 1884 (perhaps, but not
likley, 1883).

You can purchace the death event certificate here and it MAY OR MAY
NOT list a date of birth.

I'd say this is probably as close as we're going to get to an actual
answer without ordering the certificate - and even then the
information still might not be on it.


Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 20:10 PDT
I realize that I've given you some information that you probably
already have but to make sure you get everything I find I thought I'd
post it just in case. I know you already know Phoebe's date of death
for example but didn't know if you were aware of her actual grave
location. As for the death certificate, I know you already have one
but I mentioned the "event" recording just in case it happens to be
some other document which migh tbear a date of birth (I don't know if
its the same document or not, you see). I just thought I'd clarify
that so you didn't think I was scatterbrained and not reading your

I hate to do this in segments but there is a great deal of work and
time between hopeful (or at least interesting) finds. Having said that
I also managed to srounge up these, that may or may not be something
significant to you but you'll probably find them interesting anyway:

GERTRUDE BESSIE HAINES ("Bessie", perhaps?)

GEORGE BIDDER STANTON ("George B. Stanton", perhaps?)

WILBUR HAINES STANTON (our "Wilbur Stanton" no doubt, killed in action
in Italy)

More if it comes available.


Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 20:42 PDT
Again, I know this does not directly address your question but I had
some free time and I got a bit obsessed with working on your family
tree so I’ll make another off-topic entry here:

I have since confirmed that the GEORGE BIDDER STANTON listed above is
most certainly the father of our WILBER HAINES STANTON son of PHOEBE
JANE STANTON (nee, Haines). My hope was that through this bit of
information I might develop something or someone new who might know
more, but alas, I did not.

Wilbur was indeed killed in action in Italy in 1944 while serving with
the 17th Regiment of the Royal Canadian Artillery. He left behind a
widow, Martha Lauretta Stanton, of New Westminster, British Columbia,



Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 14 Oct 2003 21:50 PDT
Ok. One more and then I'll let it rest a while:

Here is the memorial record of Phoebe's brother, Army Private WILBUR
WALTER JOYNT HAINES who died on August 26, 1918. He served with the
1st Canadian Mounted Rifles (Saskatchewan Regt.) and was killed in
action in Feuchy, France. He is buried in the Orange Hill Cemetery,
Feuchy, France, plot A9.

(Notice this citation about Birtle, Manitoba being the family
homeplace: "Son of John B. and Annie Haines, of Birtle, Manitoba.")


Clarification of Question by beajane-ga on 14 Oct 2003 22:58 PDT
Thank you for all your efforts Tutuzdad-ga  !    If you wish to stop
at this point I can understand - you have turned up a wealth of family
information for me.  As I am now pretty sure that my grandmother was
born in Manitoba (one record I have heard from in the last two days
says Lake of The Woods) I think I will concentrate on the Manitoba
Office of Vital Statistics and see what I can get there.  One does not
expect that death certificates will have incorrect information but
apparently they do ! I feel I have certainly received my money's worth
and again thanks

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 15 Oct 2003 07:06 PDT
At this point of course it hasn't cost you anything. You will not be
charged unless someone finds the actual date and posts it as an answer
OR until you give permission for someone to post information that you
WILL ACCEPT as an answer short of the information you requested. By
your comment, "I feel I have certainly received my money's worth" am I
to assume you would like me to close your question now and claim the
posted fee, even though my answer did not turn up the actual date you

Subject: Re: Search for birthdate
Answered By: tutuzdad-ga on 15 Oct 2003 16:57 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
Dear beajane-ga:

I'm going to go ahead and post an official answer to your question. I
don't give up too easily you see, so I sat down after my final comment
last night and launched an exhaustive manual search of MANY, MANY
pages of the 1901 Canadian census records (it was mind numbing but
unfortunatley it's the only way possible at the moment to search this
particular census). After several determined hours, by some totally
bizarre stroke of luck I happened across the very record and date of
birth you are looking for. To my knowledge, this is the only existing
corroborating record of this era that mentions the date of birth of
Phoebe Jane Haines, other than her birth certificate. Her exact date
of birth was November 30, 1883.

Also contained in these records are names ages and dates of birth the
the rest of the entire family:



continued on the next page

BESSIE (middle initial possibly C, G, or E)

You may have to download the viewer plug-in (I didn't, but you might
need to). Read this important help file about the viewer before you
get started.


Now, once you get the viewer (if necessary) click here to access these
records manually as I did. You will see by the length of this URL that
I have already done the search for you. This should take you right to
the source:


Scroll down to book #2. Use the drop down menu and select "PG 3". The
image of page #3 will open and you can zoom in to the records. The
Haines family is the last family on this page and Phoebe Jane is
listed among them here.

Close this page and return to book #2. Use the drop down menu and
select "PG 4". The image of page #4 will open and you can zoom in on
the first few entries on the page. These are the remaining family
members that did not fit on page 3.

After the many posts and mutual discussions about how I came to find
these records, I think it would be redundant to mention a seach
strategy or search terms as we normally do in closing. I will simply
say that I hope you find that that my research and your experience
here has exceeded your expectations. If you have any questions about
my research please post a clarification request prior to rating the
answer. Otherwise, I welcome your rating and your final comments and I
look forward to working with you again in the near future. Thank you
for bringing your question to us and prividing me with such an
interesting challenge.

Best regards;

Clarification of Answer by tutuzdad-ga on 16 Oct 2003 04:26 PDT
Thank you so much for your generosity.

beajane-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $25.00
Thank you Tutuzdad-ga !!    I am so happy to learn the correct date as
well as all the other information you discovered.  This was a great
job of research and I'm really pleased with the outcome. The 1901
census did the trick but what a job to find the right entry.

Subject: Re: Search for birthdate
From: 4keith-ga on 10 Oct 2003 13:28 PDT

To help with the research,
(1) What birthdate do you have for Phoebe?
(2) What is her death date and city/place/province of death?
(3) What is George B. Stanton's birthdate and death date?
(4) What are the names of their children, if any?

KEITH (I'm NOT a GOOGLE Researcher)
Subject: Re: Search for birthdate
From: tutuzdad-ga on 13 Oct 2003 18:40 PDT
Dear beajane-ga;

Well, for what it's worth, this is all I was able to find. I'll let
you be the judge as to whether it answers your question and whether
it’s worthy of compensation or not:


Here are your great-grandparents:

JOHN BYRON HAINES (b. 1847 in Strafford, Ontario; d. 1928, Winnipeg,

ANN HAINES (nee, JOYNT) (b. 1856, Quebec; d. June 03, 1917)

They married on April 21, 1875 in Winnipeg, Manitoba. In the 1881
Census they were living in Little Saskatchewan, Western Extension,
Extension, Manitoba. 


I was able to find these records of only three children dating from

Birth:  15 SEP 1876 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Manitoba
Death:  04 JUL 1925


JOHN HAINES (Male) b. 1878 in Manitoba


Interestingly, (and I think this is significant) there is also this
entry from about the same period you mentioned:

ANNIE HAINES (Female) born sometime between Aug. 8-12, 1880 in the


Now, my theory (and it's just a theory mind you) is that unless this
child died in infancy and the Haines family had another female child
shortly thereafter and gave her the same name (ANN, as in "Phoebe
Ann"), it really isn't likely that they would have named two living
children Ann or Annie. It is my theory also that this entry is
probably Phoebe, known affectionately as Annie since was not uncommon
for families to report the names of family members to census
collectors as being identified by their common name. A person named
Margaret for example is commonly listed on census records as Maggie,
Madge, Marge and a number of other common names other than their given
name at birth.

If my theory is correct and this "Annie" turns out to be your "Phoebe
Ann Haines" then the date of birth you are looking for will be
somewhere between August 8th and August 12th, 1880. There is, of
course, no way for me to verify this so it remains an unproven theory.


So you can see how difficult the research has become from here, since
no "Phoebe" appears in these records, there just wasn't very much to
go on. Occasionally you can make contact with other researchers who
are studying this lineage and making submissions like the ones I've
shown you and develop more information. Perhaps these related bits of
information can help you get closer to your answer or perhaps find
someone related to these individuals who knows more:

I was able to find a bit more information about ALBERTA HAINES:

ALBERTA M. HAINES married JOHN THOMAS BROUGH on January 10, 1906 in
Birtle, Manitoba.

Here is the master household record for all the individual family

While it does not actually prove my theory or establish a date of
birth beyond a reasonable doubt, please let me know if you feel that
this research is worthy of compensation. If so, I will close your
question for you. My hope is that this added information sets you on
the right path to discover more about your family history.

Best regards;







Google ://


Subject: Re: Search for birthdate
From: politicalguru-ga on 15 Oct 2003 07:53 PDT
Dear BeaJane, 

Maybe you're not aware of it, but until Tutuzdad-ga posts an answer in
the answer box, he will not be paid for his efforts. If you wish to
pay him, you could tell him to post his findings as an official

I hope that helps and I wish you success in finding the records! 


Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  

Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy