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Q: Philosophy - a logic question ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Philosophy - a logic question
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: smurray1-ga
List Price: $2.50
Posted: 11 Oct 2003 11:58 PDT
Expires: 10 Nov 2003 10:58 PST
Question ID: 265242
This is an extra credit for my Philosophy class . .I feel that the
answer that I have come up withi is not logical.  Can you help?  Harry
is offered a cream puff by the Weasley twins, Fred and George.  But as
per ususal with the Weasley twins, there is a catch.  The catch is
that Harry must choose between two seemingly identical candies.  The
first is a true cream puff, bu to the other is a Canary cream puff
which, if Harry eats it will turn Harry into a large yellow canary. 
But don't fear Harry:  Fred and I will help you make your choise." 
George tells Harry.  Indeed-we want to help your firend out as much as
possible." chimed in Fred.  "you may ask Geroge and I one
questioneach.  But one of us will lie to you - though the other will
answere truly.
Overhearing this offer, Hermoine scoffs, Well that's easy!  I only
need to ask George a question.  Hermoine indeed asks George - but -
not Fred a question.  SHe then grabs the cream puffs and eats it.  She
does not tuen into a large yellow canary.  Harry is still confused. 
"How did you know which one was the real creampuff/" demanded Harry. 
"You know, you should really take a lgic class Harry.  It is quite
simple said Hermoine knowingly.  What question did Hermoine ask
George? And how did that enable her to know which candy was the true
cream puff?  Remember that George either lied or told the truth - by
Hermoine does not know which.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Philosophy - a logic question
Answered By: boquinha-ga on 11 Oct 2003 13:04 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello, smurray1-ga! 

I started reading your question and was sure that you were giving away
something critical to the 5th Harry Potter book so, having not even
completed the 4th book yet, I summoned my husband to screen the
question. He’s read all five and assures me that this question does
not even directly relate to the books. Phew!

This particular logic question is one that has been around for a LONG
time, only the variables change periodically. I found a number of
bulletin boards where people were discussing logic problems and found
the answer to this question on one of them
(http://www.faithforum.org/challenge/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3323). Here
goes . . .

Let’s label the cream puffs “A” and “B” for simplicity’s sake. Now
lets assume that A is the “safe” one and B is the “canary puff.”

Next, let’s consider Fred and George. There are two possibilities:
1.	Fred is the truth-teller and George is the liar. Or,
2.	Fred is the liar and George is the truth-teller.

There are two questions that could be asked of George, each revealing
the answer to this problem.
1.	Would Fred say that “A” is safe? Or,
2.	Would Fred say that “B” is safe?
I suppose that we could also ask the inverse (i.e., Would Fred say
that “A” is unsafe, etc.), but I didn’t include that question in the
list of possibilities, for simplicity’s sake.

Ok, let’s set up the different permutations. Using the above
possibilities there are four possibilities:

1.	Fred = liar, George = truth-teller, “Would Fred say that A is
safe?”
2.	Fred = truth-teller, George = liar, “Would Fred say that A is
safe?”
3.	Fred = liar, George = truth-teller, “Would Fred say that B is
safe?”
4.	Fred = truth-teller, George = liar, “Would Fred say that B is
safe?”

Now lets examine the results of each permutation:

1. Fred = liar, George = truth-teller, “Would Fred say that A is
safe?”

Fred’s natural answer, being the liar, would be “no.” George, being
the truth-teller would reflect that accurately by answering the
question with a “no.” Thus Hermione should act oppositely and eat
cream puff A.

2. Fred = truth-teller, George = liar, “Would Fred say that A is
safe?”

Fred’s natural answer, being the truth-teller would be “yes.” George,
being the liar would contradict that by answering the question with a
“no.” Thus Hermione should act oppositely again and eat cream puff A.

3. Fred = liar, George = truth-teller, “Would Fred say that B is
safe?”

Fred’s natural answer, being the liar, would be “yes.” George, being
the truth-teller would reflect that accurately by answering the
question with a “yes.” Thus Hermione should act oppositely and eat
cream puff A.

4. Fred = truth-teller, George = liar, “Would Fred say that B is
safe?”

Fred’s natural answer, being the truth-teller, would be “no.” George,
being the liar  would contradict that by answering the question with a
“yes.” Thus Hermione should act oppositely and eat cream puff A.

As you can see, asking George to reveal Fred’s answer indicates that
Hermione should do the OPPOSITE in every case. Working out the above 4
scenarios using “B” as the safe cream puff will still give you the
answer that Hermione should act in opposition to George’s answers.

I hope that this is in fact the answer that you came up with. Thanks
for asking a great question and giving me a chance to work on this
brainteaser. If anything is unclear, please let me know!

Good luck,
Boquinha-ga

Google Search Strategy
One + question + logic + problem
://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=one+question+logic+problem

P.S. Out of curiosity, are you a Harry Potter fan?
smurray1-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $5.00
First of all, the turnaround on the answer was oustanding!  The actual
answer was put into terms that I can understand and certainly use in
my response (especially in Philosophy terms!).  Thank you!!!

Comments  
Subject: Re: Philosophy - a logic question
From: xypher-ga on 11 Oct 2003 16:37 PDT
 
I believe that the answer would be "If i were to ask you is <points to
muffin> this the true cream puff, would you say yes?"

i have heard a logic problem very much like this one before, and ^ was
the adaptive answer.
Subject: Re: Philosophy - a logic question
From: boquinha-ga on 11 Oct 2003 17:10 PDT
 
smurray1-ga,

My good colleague PinkFreud-ga has pointed out this nifty site that
you may enjoy as well: http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.liar.html

With regard to xypher-ga's comment, I believe that refers to a
paradoxical situation where the liar is unable to answer the question,
because by so doing, he would be forced to tell the truth, which he
can not do.
Subject: Re: Philosophy - a logic question
From: boquinha-ga on 12 Oct 2003 07:10 PDT
 
smurray1-ga,

Thank you so very much for the comment, 5-star rating, and generous
tip! It is much appreciated! I'm so glad that this helps you out and
makes sense. Good luck to you!

Thank you again,
Boquinha-ga
Subject: Re: Philosophy - a logic question
From: thehomeland-ga on 17 Oct 2003 11:15 PDT
 
Better answer:  "I'm not hungry."

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