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Q: Public domain copyright issue on French composers ( No Answer,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Public domain copyright issue on French composers
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Music
Asked by: fablau-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 20 Oct 2003 02:40 PDT
Expires: 19 Nov 2003 01:40 PST
Question ID: 267845
Hello.

I have a question to ask about copyrights on French composers. Today a
French copyrights organization contacted me claiming rights on some
composition of French composers we sell on our website. The problem is
that such organization claims that:

"The protection of the French authors is 80 years. 70 years
after the death of the author + 10 years for the years of war (14-18,
39-45).
The authors died after December 31, 1922 are not included in the
public domain."

So, my question is: does this rule is applied only "inside" the France
country or it is applied even outside? For example, I know that in the
US, a musical composition passes in the public domain after 70 years
after the death of the composer, as it is stated in this page:

http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm

except, for the US, works published after 1923.

I have already contacted my legal attorney for any clarification, but
any further idea, information and help on this matter is really
appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,
Fabrizio Ferrari

Clarification of Question by fablau-ga on 23 Oct 2003 01:19 PDT
Thank you Tehuti for your answer. I think is almost what I looked for.

Anyway, I found that the Berne Convention, Art. 7(8) states, "In any
case, the term shall be governed by the legislation of the country
where protection is claimed; however, unless the legislation of that
country provides otherwise, the term shall not exceed the term fixed
in the country of origin of the work." 

If I am correct, the first sentence of the above article states that
copyright laws apply only within the jurisdiction of the nation
adopting them.  What do you think about that?

Thank you again.

Sincerely,
Fabrizio

Request for Question Clarification by tehuti-ga on 25 Oct 2003 17:01 PDT
Hello Fabrizio,

Please excuse the delay in my reply.  Firstly, I need to stress very
strongly that I am NOT a copyright lawyer, and have only gained a
superficial insight into copyright issues through my training in
library and information studies.  Since it appears that lawyers cannot
agree on the interpretation of international copyright questions, I
certainly do not feel able to give you a definitive reply!  What
follows below is a summary of information I have found in my searches
on this topic.

I have found some further information about the French wartime
extension:
“France uniquely extends the EU period with provision for the annees
de guerre: extra time for the First World War (considered to have
lasted from 1914 to 1919) and the Second World War (1939 to 1948). The
Matisse estate, for example, is protected for the artist's life + the
EU 70 years + five years for WW I + nine years for WW II. The
extension was reaffirmed by French courts in two decisions during
November 2001 and is likely to be challenged by the European
Commission. France also adds a further thirty years for an author who
"died for France".”
http://www.caslon.com.au/durationprofile.htm 

OK, let’s piece together the sections of the Berne Convention
http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm
that might apply to this case.  Please excuse me, while I think aloud:

Art. 3.1 The protection of this Convention shall apply to: 
(a)	authors who are nationals of one of the countries of the Union,
for their works, whether published or not;

Thus, a French composer will be covered irrespective of where his
works have been published, and his unpublished works will be covered
as well.

Article 5
(1) Authors shall enjoy, in respect of works for which they are
protected under this Convention, in countries of the Union other than
the country of origin, the rights which their respective laws do now
or may hereafter grant to their nationals, as well as the rights
specially granted by this Convention.

Hmmm, the wording here is terrible!!!  However, given that the phrase
“their respective laws” refers to a plural entity, it cannot refer to
the singular “the country of origin”   “Their respective laws”: the
“their” must refer to “countries” rather than to “authors”.  This
would then imply that when copyright issues for a French composer
arise in a country other than France, it will be the local laws rather
than the French laws that will apply.

And now the section that you have already cited:

Art 7 (8) In any case, the term shall be governed by the legislation
of the country where protection is claimed; however, unless the
legislation of that country otherwise provides, the term shall not
exceed the term fixed in the country of origin of the work.

Hmmm, in your case, protection is being claimed on the basis of the
laws of France rather than the laws of the country where you are
located.  Yet Art 5.1 and Art 7.8 would imply this cannot be done.

Article 19 
 The provisions of this Convention shall not preclude the making of a
claim to the benefit of any greater protection which may be granted by
legislation in a country of the Union.

Article 19, however, would seem to be saying that yes, if France
offers greater protection, then French law can be used as the basis of
a claim.

I found the following interpretation from the American Library
Association, which supports the notion that it is always the local law
that applies when infringement is being claimed:

“International copyright law is concerned with the interplay of two or
more nations' copyright systems. Each country has its own method of
recognizing, granting and protecting copyrights. The individual
nuances of each of the involved nation's copyright laws must be
considered. For example, some countries do not have intellectual
property laws at all; others grant more protections than the U.S.
does. There is no such thing as an "international copyright" that
unconditionally protects a work throughout the world. Instead, the
degree of protection a work is entitled to in a particular country
depends on the law of that nation.”
http://www.ala.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Our_Association/Offices/ALA_Washington/Issues2/Copyright1/International_Copyright/Default2660.htm

But, just to complicate matters, I have also found the following,
which may be of relevance depending on who is trying to act against
you:

“Choice of Law in International Copyright Disputes” by  Mark V.B.
Partridge
http://www.pattishall.com/pdfs/ChoiceofLawinInternational.pdf 

The discussion is about works created in a foreign country by
nationals of that country, whose copyright is deemed to have been
infringed within the US.  The foreign nationals brought the case to a
US court, and the question arises as to which country’s law must be
applied.

Here are some pertinent extracts:

“the Berne Convention provides that the national of a member state is
entitled to national treatment in each other member state, and some
commentators have concluded that the applicable law is the copyright
law of the country where the infringement occurred.”

However, the point is made that this provision in the Berne Convention
“merely assures that the national law of infringement will be applied
uniformly to foreign and domestic authors; it provides no guidance on
the question of ownership. Indeed, the Berne Convention Implementation
Act specifically provides that the rights eligible for protection
"shall not be expanded or reduced" by virtue of the Berne Convention.
17 U.S.C. 104(c).”

With respect to the case being discussed in the document, it is
stated:
“Under U.S. choice of law principles, the applicable law for
determining interests in property is the
law of the state with the most significant relationship to the
property and the parties. Since the works were created by Russian
nationals and first published in Russia, ownership should be
determined by Russian law. The Berne Convention provides nothing to
the contrary. The question of ownership also involves the scope and
nature of the interest owned. This, too, is determined by Russian
law.”

From this, the point made is:
“Do not assume that the publisher of the work automatically has
ownership and standing to sue. Under U.S. law, only the legal or
beneficial owner of an exclusive right in the work has standing to
sue.”

I'm sorry if this has only served to muddy the waters further!

Clarification of Question by fablau-ga on 27 Oct 2003 01:15 PST
Dear Tehuti,
I think you absolutely answered my question and highlighted the
complexity of the matter. My attorney affirms that "it would only be
applicable in France or French territories" but your provided
information don't assure me his affirmation.

I will try to find an agreement with the French organization and/or to
clarify this matter in depth with the help of my attorney.

I think your effort was great. I absolutely want to give you $20,
please put an answer. I will be very glad to thank you.

Thank you so much again for all your kindness and time.

Sincerely,
Fabrizio
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Public domain copyright issue on French composers
From: tehuti-ga on 20 Oct 2003 11:02 PDT
 
Hello fablau,

I cannot give you a definitive viewpoint, so am putting this in as a
comment and not as an official answer, although I will happily move it
to the answer box if you consider it of any use!  :)

The extension period for both First and Second World Wars taken
together is nearer to 15 years:

"The French copyright term is extended by articles 123-8 and 123-9 of
the Intellectual Property Code to compensate authors for the presumed
loss of the opportunity to exploit their works during the First and
Second World
Wars. The First World War extension is equal to the length of the
period
between August 2, 1914 and the "end of the year following the date of
signature of the peace treaty". There was some dispute over the
precise end date,
meaning that some courts have recognized an extension of six years and
152
days, while others have favored six years and 83 days. The precise end
date has some significance, as the extension applies to works
published prior
to such date which had not fallen into the public domain prior to
February 3, 1919. Works published prior to January 1, 1948 and which
had not fallen into
the public domain prior to August 13, 1941 benefit from an extension
equal to
the period from September 3, 1939 and January 1, 1948, or eight years
and
120 days." 
http://www.cni.org/Hforums/cni-copyright/2002-01/0111.html 

However, this legislation was enacted when the French copyright term
was for 50 years after the death of the author. Whether it applies to
the harmonised 70-year term as well is a matter of debate:

"The question of whether the wartime copyright extensions continued 
following the harmonization of the EU copyright term to life + 70 is a
good one. At the time that harmonization was taking place, there
seemed
to be a general belief that the prolongation of the post mortem term 
would coincide with the extinction of the various special extensions 
that had been created in France and elsewhere. However, no such change
took place in France when the March 1977 copyright term extension was
enacted. French lawyers that I have spoken to believe that the wartime
extensions are still in place."
http://www.cni.org/Hforums/cni-copyright/1999-03/0935.html 

However, the problem is determining which law applies when the issue
affects events in more than one country.  Some lawyers argue that the
law of the country in which the supposed infringement takes place must
be the one applied.  Others, however, argue that the rights of the
author are paramount, and that if a potential breach takes place in
another country, and the law of the author's country provides the
author with greater protection, precedence must be given to the
latter.  It appears that no consensus has been reached on this
question.
http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2001-all/yu-2001-04-all.html

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