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Q: International Criminal Court ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   0 Comments )
Question  
Subject: International Criminal Court
Category: Relationships and Society > Law
Asked by: cati-ga
List Price: $15.00
Posted: 26 Oct 2003 22:54 PST
Expires: 25 Nov 2003 22:54 PST
Question ID: 269995
The attitdue of Australia when it came to creating an "International
Criminal Court"?
As in; Who within Australia objected to the court and who was in
support of the court's creation.  Reasons/arguments as to why the
court should not be created and vise versa. If possible, one counrty
that ws all for the courts creation.
Answer  
Subject: Re: International Criminal Court
Answered By: juggler-ga on 27 Oct 2003 01:04 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello.

-----------------------------------------------------
Who within Australia objected to the court, and who was in support of
the court's creation?
-----------------------------------------------------

Objected to the court:

"JOHN ANDERSON National Party leader and Deputy Prime Minister
BRONWYN BISHOP former minister
A range of backbenchers... including Victorian MP Sophie Panopoulos."

In support of the court:

"ALEXANDER DOWNER Foreign Affairs Minister
DARYL WILLIAMS Attorney General
AMANDA VANSTONE Family and Community Services Minister
JULIE BISHOP Joint Standing Committee on Treaties chair
LABOR "

source:
icc-info / International Criminal Court-Information
hosted by Yahoo Groups
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/icc-info/message/2085


-----------------------------------------------------
Reasons/arguments as to why the court should not be created and
vice-versa.
-----------------------------------------------------

Arguments why the court should not be created:

(1) It would corrode Australia's judicial independence. Australians
should not be subject to trial before a non-Australian judge and
prosecutor.
(2) Australian military personnel could find themselves hauled before
this court.
(3) If the UN Security Council can't stop the dictators and butchers
of this world, how would this court have the power to enforce its
decisions?
(4) Australia would be surrendering some of its sovereignty to this
court.
(5) It'll be even harder to get rid of dictators and butchers of the
world because it will no longer be possible to give them amnesty from
prosecution as an inducement to step down.
(6) The International Criminal Court will go after countries that are
internationally unpopular, starting with Israel, the U.S., and
possibly Australia if it finds itself on the "unpopular" side of some
international conflict.


Arguments why the court should be created:

(1) International Criminal Court will be an extremely important tool
for ending some of the worst atrocities that people are committing
against each other around the world.
(2) The law does not affect sovereignty.  Australia will still be able
to conduct its own trials if Australians are subject to accusations.
(3) Australia was one of the key supporters of the court when it was
proposed in Rome in 1998.  To withdraw support after initially backing
the idea would cause Australia to lose credibility.
(4) The only people who should fear the International Criminal Court
are the people who commit war crimes, crimes against humanity and acts
of genocide. If you're not doing any of those things, you've got
nothing to worry about.  If you are doing those things, you SHOULD be
punished.

sources (and additional arguments for & against):

ICC debate, hosted by ABC:
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/s584280.htm

"Liberals split over support for International Criminal Court," hosted
by ABC:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/s571506.htm

"Battle hots up over ICC,"  hosted by ABC:
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/s584278.htm


"Minister supports crime court," hosted by The Age:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/06/12/1023864297554.html

" The International Criminal Court – the latest showdown"
http://www.ipa.org.au/pubs/special/Albrechtsen.pdf

"Treaties Committee recommends Australia support International
Criminal Court"
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/jsct/icc/media/final.pdf

[These last two documents are in PDF format, so the Adobe Acrobat
Reader is required. If you don't have that, please visit Adobe's web
site:      
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html  ]



-----------------------------------------------------
One country that was all for the court's creation.
-----------------------------------------------------

Germany was all for the court's creation.

See:
"Germany's Viewpoint on the ICC," hosted by Germany-info.org:
http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/publications/infocus/ICC/viewpoint.html

"GERMANY STEPS UP CRITICISM OF US OVER INTERNATIONAL COURT 
07/07/2002, Agence France-Presse," cached by Google Groups:
http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:jfVPT8UYpZQJ:www.amicc.org/docs/July7_02.pdf&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

------------

search strategy:
"international criminal court", sovereignty, site:au
"international criminal court", "bronwyn bishop", site:au
icc, "international criminal court" genocide, site:au
"favor of", supports "international criminal court"
"international criminal court", germany, joschka fischer

I hope this helps.

Request for Answer Clarification by cati-ga on 03 Nov 2003 22:22 PST
This part here, is this form a particular website or is this im ur own words??????

Arguments why the court should not be created: 
 
(1) It would corrode Australia's judicial independence. Australians
should not be subject to trial before a non-Australian judge and
prosecutor.
(2) Australian military personnel could find themselves hauled before
this court.
(3) If the UN Security Council can't stop the dictators and butchers
of this world, how would this court have the power to enforce its
decisions?
(4) Australia would be surrendering some of its sovereignty to this
court.
(5) It'll be even harder to get rid of dictators and butchers of the
world because it will no longer be possible to give them amnesty from
prosecution as an inducement to step down.
(6) The International Criminal Court will go after countries that are
internationally unpopular, starting with Israel, the U.S., and
possibly Australia if it finds itself on the "unpopular" side of some
international conflict.
 
 
Arguments why the court should be created: 
 
(1) International Criminal Court will be an extremely important tool
for ending some of the worst atrocities that people are committing
against each other around the world.
(2) The law does not affect sovereignty.  Australia will still be able
to conduct its own trials if Australians are subject to accusations.
(3) Australia was one of the key supporters of the court when it was
proposed in Rome in 1998.  To withdraw support after initially backing
the idea would cause Australia to lose credibility.
(4) The only people who should fear the International Criminal Court
are the people who commit war crimes, crimes against humanity and acts
of genocide. If you're not doing any of those things, you've got
nothing to worry about.  If you are doing those things, you SHOULD be
punished.

Clarification of Answer by juggler-ga on 04 Nov 2003 00:08 PST
Yes, those are my own words. 

 Rather than simply refer you to the debates and articles cited, I
summarized the main arguments.  Each argument mentioned corresponds to
an argument actually made in one of the documents below:

ICC debate, hosted by ABC: 
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/s584280.htm  

"Liberals split over support for International Criminal Court," hosted
by ABC:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/s571506.htm  

"Battle hots up over ICC,"  hosted by ABC: 
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/s584278.htm  

 "Minister supports crime court," hosted by The Age: 
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/06/12/1023864297554.html 

 " The International Criminal Court – the latest showdown" 
http://www.ipa.org.au/pubs/special/Albrechtsen.pdf  

"Treaties Committee recommends Australia support International
Criminal Court"
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/jsct/icc/media/final.pdf

Request for Answer Clarification by cati-ga on 05 Nov 2003 01:17 PST
Seriously, your answer has been great and is very useful...... Sorry I
just need one more point of view, which I failed to mention in the
initial question. Whic is important and would put completion and
closure on my inquiry. What has been said about the issue, regarding
the courts creation from a legal perspective. Are the any law
journals, or opinions of judges or other legal perspectives of
acadmeics and international law comentators

Clarification of Answer by juggler-ga on 05 Nov 2003 02:14 PST
Hi.

Okay, I've located a transcript that contains three different legal
perspectives (from International Law Professor Tim McCormack of the
University of Melbourne,  Australian London-based barrister Geoffrey
Robertson, and Oxford academic David Robertson). See The Law Report:
"The International Criminal Court; Legal Sovereignty"
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/lawrpt/stories/s589174.htm


For a judge's perspective, see The Honorable Justice David Hunt's
speech "International Criminal Justice from Nuremberg to the Hague -
Some Likely Problems for the International Criminal Court"
at The Law Council of Australia:
http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/read/2003/2378922812

PDF download at:
http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/get/media/2378922812

[PDF format, so the Adobe Acrobat Reader is required. If you don't
have that, please visit Adobe's web site:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html  ] 
 

I hope this helps.

Request for Answer Clarification by cati-ga on 06 Nov 2003 04:26 PST
Thank-you very much..... I am most happy with all the information that
you have provided me with, its excellent and will be of very much use.
However, there is just one more final thing ------ I promise. What you
have given me in regards to legal point of views is grea, but, I
really need an article from an actual law journal.... (the best thing
would be an Australian one but one of another country would also be of
use).
Hear form you soon.

Clarification of Answer by juggler-ga on 06 Nov 2003 11:46 PST
Thank you for the tip.

I couldn't any International Criminal Court articles from any
Australian law journals, but I did find some law journal articles from
the U.S.:


Madeline Morris, The Democratic Dilemma of the International Criminal
Court, published in Buffalo Criminal Law Review:
http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/bclrarticles/5(2)/Morris.pdf
Or html version cached by Google:
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:fCs8aQZpaU0J:wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/bclrarticles/5(2)/Morris.pdf+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


Allison Marston Danner, Navigating Law and Politics: The Prosecutor of
the International Criminal Court and the Independent Counsel,
published in the Stanford Law Review:
http://lawreview.stanford.edu/content/vol55/5/Danner.pdf
Or html version cached by Goolge:
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:NQyKfvwn4xMJ:lawreview.stanford.edu/content/vol55/5/Danner.pdf+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
cati-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $3.50
What can I say... the answer is great and exactly what I have been
looking for...... thanks hepes.

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