I am interested in learning more about music.  I feel a need to
"figure it out."
I have a very basic understanding of how to read sheet music (from 5th
grade), but I don't like looking at it and it makes me grimace to
think of looking at notes. However, I feel a need to visualize and
understand what is happening within a piece of music.
For example, there is a piece in 'The Marriage of Figaro' (don't know
the name of song), which is simply perfection to me.  I want to be
able to look at it and analyze it.  What notes are being played and
sung?  How do the notes affect each other and what is the distance
between them.  How does it work?!  But, I don't want to look at sheet
music!  I want to be able to view it via computer, or visually w/
color or with numbers or 3-dimentionally.  I want to compare notes and
see what they do.  I sincerely don't know if this is music theory 101
or a complicated application which would be an overwhelming task to
undertake.  I am not interested in getting into any sort of "chat
room" for music appreciation. I just want to figure it out, but I
don't know how.

Thank you in advance for any insight you may be able to provide.

catado --

I really appreciate the opportunity to post the "official" answer to
your fascinating question, and I want to second your recognition of
the useful material that sublime1 and pinkfreud contributed to the
project.  As a lifelong musician (pianist) who is committing a lot of
time in my (early) retirement to things musical, I enjoyed the
opportunity to help satisfy your curiosity on this subject.  Come back
with more questions!

(In order to make my answer "official," I am reposting the relevant
portion of my last comment below.)

I think I have found a tool that might be of special interest to you. 
Here is an excerpt of its description by its author:
 
"The Music Animation Machine display is a score without any measures
or clefs, in which information about the music's structure is conveyed
with bars of color representing the notes. These bars scroll across
the screen as the music plays. Their position on the screen tells you
their pitch and their timing in relation to each other. Different
colors denote different instruments or voices, thematic material, or
tonality. And each note lights up at the exact moment it sounds, so
you can't lose your place.
 
"The experience of watching the Music Animation Machine can be a
remarkable awakening to the inner structure of music, especially for
people who are sensitive to music but lack the training to "see
inside" a conventional musical score."
 
This quote and much more information about the tool can be found at this Web site: 
The Music Animation Machine: A Tool For Listeners 
http://www.well.com/user/smalin/overview.html 
 

Thanks again,

markj-ga

Excellent research - Found exactly the information for which I was
seeking, and even further clarified for me, the question which I was
groping to ask!  FJ mentioned it was like seeking something, but not
knowing the language of that being sought.  Markj assisted with
understanding that language as well as providing the precise answer. 
Great experience for me!

catado...

Sounds like you would enjoy an approach based on an understanding
of harmonics. Harmonics is to music what phonetics is to spelling.
Intuitive vs memorized.

I play by ear, having been shown by the older brother of a next
door neighbor, in a half-hour, how to make every chord which can
be named - forty years ago. Seriously.

Of course, I also have a great ear for music, which is to say
if you played any note on the piano with my back turned to you,
I could turn around and find it within a few tickles of the ivories.
You can test your own abilities in a similar fashion.

Even without that gift, you can utilize a method of learning
such as my neighbor's brother taught me. Fortunately, there are
now resources available which allow you to learn in this much
simpler, intuitive manner - whether in addition to, or in place
of, reading music.

Meet Mark Almond, and read the story of how he came to develop
the harmonic approach he uses in his two best-selling videos,
'Piano for Quitters' and 'Piano for Life':
http://www.pianoforlife.com/Article.html

Now, I'll post this as a comment, rather than in the answer
box, since your question seems to focus on an interest in
some sort of visual aid to assist you in recognizing the
interaction of notes, and their relationship to each other.
However, I urge you to consider the method I'm suggesting, 
which will allow you to understand these relationships
intuitively, with your ears and heart, in such a way that
you can reproduce what you hear, and, even better, translate
your own feelings into musical expressions all your own.

For example, I can not only reproduce any note which is 
played, I can also tell you whether the chord being played
is major, minor, augmented, diminished, etc. This is due
to an easily learned comprehension of the intervals (spaces)
between the notes (3rds, 4ths, 5ths, etc) and the way
these combine in chords to produce particular sounds, 
and feelings.

If you deem this a suitable answer, let me know, and I'll
post it in the answer box.

sublime1-ga

Catado, I know you didn't ask for help identifying the selection you
liked so well from Mozart's "The Marriage of Figaro," but I thought
I'd take a wild guess at it anyway.  If you want to study a particular
piece of music, it's useful to know the name, and I thought I might be
able to help you there.

The first possibility that springs to my mind as a candidate for the
label of "perfection" is "Voi che sapete," a soprano aria from the
second act (Cherubino's song to the Countess).  You can download and
listen to it here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000059PJ5/103-1077132-9263817?v=glance

If it's another soprano aria, my second nominee would be "Dove sono,"
the Countess's bittersweet song of yearning for the days when the
Count still loved her.

Apteryx

Hi,

This is Catadoga, and this is my first time asking a question here.
I should probably refer to the rules as to posting in the comments
section, but it is too late.... Man, probably breaking the rules
already!

To Sublime1,

I am thrilled by your response and very excited to look into your
suggestions.  I am pleased at the thoroughness and passion conveyed
and sincerely grateful for your insights.
I will graciously accept your comment and will provide either feedback
and/or a tip in the future as compensation.  I am going for the gusto
here and hoping to hear back more specifically re: the
visual/computer/numerical frame of reference, as my curiosity is
getting the best of me.


To apteryx,
Thank you too for your comment.
I know the songs you are refering to, and I love them as well.
I have a highlights disc and it doesn't list the songs on the CD
itself.
The song I am referring to starts with ([sounds like]... and pardon my
Italian!), "Conocete signor figaro, questo folio qui vergo, Nah la
conosca, nah la conosca, Nol conoshi" (women) ... etc.  Can you name
that tune?!
Thanks again for your input.

catado --

The music you have described is a recitative from Act II of The
Marriage of Figaro entitled "Conoscete, Signor Figaro."  Here is a
link to an audio clip:
iclassics.com: Le Nozze de Figaro (about halfway down the page)
http://www.iclassics.com/iclassics/album.jsp?selectionId=1485

I haven't got an answer to your question, but I was taken with your
description of the piece as "perfect" and your desire to "analyze it"
and "figure it out."

The question of what distinguishes a beautiful melody from an ordinary
one has always interested me and, as far as I can tell, has never been
satisfactorily answered.  An easy response is that "beauty is in the
eye (ear) of the beholder (listener)," but that begs the question of
how Franz Schubert, for example, could turn out melody after melody
that are generally perceived by careful Western listeners as supreme
creations.  The structure of a conventional melody and its role as a
traditional component of Western classical music can be
matter-of-factly described, as here --

Classical Music Pages
http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/g_melody.html

 -- but such descriptions don't help much in describing what makes a
"great" melody great.

The factors that go into a great aria or recitative, of course, also
include the libretto, the plot, the dramatic action, the orchestration
and the singers.  From your question, though, I gather that you are
most interested in the music itself.

As for your specific interest in computer-generated representation of
musical works that doesn't depend on conventional notation, I have not
come across any applications that can take a recording, for example,
and convert its musical content in this way, although that doesn't
mean that one doesn’t exist, although I expect that it would be
expensive.  The closest approximation that I have found is at this
site, which you might enjoy browsing:
Visible Music Soundscapes
http://www.visiblemusics.com/

Finally, there are thousands of Web sites that deal with the
intersection of computers and music within the general framework that
interests you.  Here are a couple of the Google searches that I
conducted that might help you to do some more focussed browsing on
your own:

music simple graphical representation
://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=music+simple+graphical+representation+

analyze OR analyzing melodies software
://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=++analyze+OR+analyzing+melodies+software

I hope this is helpful.

markj-ga

Catadoga...

Responding in the comments is not "breaking the rules", and
is commonly done in response to comments by others. If
someone posts a 'Request for Clarification', you will want
to click the 'Clarify Question' button so your response
will show up in the Clarification area. A user's guide to
GA is available on skermit-ga's site, here:
http://www.christopherwu.net/google_answers/answer_guide.html

sublime1-ga

Have you ever heard of the psycological condition known as
"synaesthesia"?

"The condition of synaesthesia (from the Greek syn [union] and
aisthesis [sensation], in which a stimulus received in one sensory
modality gives rise to an experience in another..."
http://www.psychiatry.cam.ac.uk/isa/frames.html

also check out this site:  http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/Synaesthesia
 I've no idea if this is any good or not, but it's an avenue to
explore...

My own thoughts on the question you raise are that it is similar to
trying to speak a language when you don't have the words to describe
the concepts that you want to describe. Or trying to describe colour
to a blind man. I too am a 'trained by ear musican' and have failed
miserably in my attempts to sight read conventional notation and have
toyed (sp?) with the idea of trying to develop an alternative method
of carrying the tunes around with me rather than relying on my music
memory.

Good luck in your quest though!

Again, I am thrilled and fascinated by the information provided thus
far, and odds are, my question has most likely been answered.
Rather than post clarification of my question, I would like to remark
on fj’s comment.
A very interesting condition you presented; it makes me think of a
friend of mine who says that each day (Mon, Tues, etc.) has a unique
color.
It more so reminds me of a secondary issue on my mind relating to this
question, which I posted to a gentleman who wrote a fractal music
program (thank you Markj for the reference).
If it is possible to assign numbers to notes, and numbers to color,
why is it not possible to scan in a painting and get an aural
representation of the painting?  The width of the painting would be
the song's duration, and the highs and lows of the music would be
determined by the light and darkness in the painting.
Thanks to all for your comments and insights, not only in helping me
to narrow my focus, but for opening Pandora’s box!
CataDoga

Regarding the concept of turning graphic images into music, you might
be interested in playing with Pixound:

http://www.pixound.com/

Here are some more programs that transform images into music and vice versa:

MIDImage
http://www.genjerdan.com/bfp/lmp/index.html

MusiNum - The Music in the Numbers
http://reglos.de/musinum/

QuasiFractal Music
http://members.tripod.com/~paulwhalley/

Twizla
http://www.bridle.demon.co.uk/twizla.htm

An interesting article:

Artistic and Psychological Experiments with Synesthesia 
http://home-1.tiscali.nl/~cretien/pub/syneng.htm

CataDoga...

More Pandora here. Since I'm such a music (and technology) lover,
over the years I've come across some wonderful programs.

ArtSong is a musical toy that assigns musical properties to colors
in an image, and uses a fractal overlay to move its sampling 
cursor around the image. At least that's how it worked in version
3, which I still have. You can select any image of your choice,
and can also modify the fractal overlays. Version 5 is now available
at the site:
http://www.artsong.org/

Another delightful toy is Musinum, which creates fractal evolutions
of numbers and lets you assign musical properties to the results.
There's an online java-applet version on this page:
http://www.fluxury.com/munisum.htm

...but the author's page and the program are here:
http://www.mns.brain.riken.go.jp/~kinderma/musinum/musinum.html

Both of these programs seem simplistic and/or awkward at first,
but, trust me, they can produce some very interesting music.

Check out the midi file 'johnsjoy' on this page of user
submissions on the Musinum site. It's mine...  : )
http://reglos.de/musinum/examples.html


If, and when, you're satisfied that your question has been
answered, you can name the contributor(s) you would like
to have answer the question formally. Comments can still 
be added after the question is answered. If there's more
than one person you want to pay, you can open a new question
with their username in the question title, and let one
post an answer here, and another in the new question.
You should know that contributors whose usernames are not
underlined and linked to ratings are not GA Researchers,
and cannot accept payment. Their comments are a gift.

sublime1-ga

For what it's worth, in response to fj's comment, I have a mild and
relatively common form of synesthesia.  I hear sounds, both music and
speech (and some other sounds too), in color and with shape and
sometimes visual texture, and I see written words as if the letters
were colored.  Days of the week, months, and indeed all proper names
have very strong colors for me; it's the capital letters that does it.
 There's no way to really describe what this is like, but I sure think
my enjoyment of sound and print is enhanced by it.

But I think catado was speaking more about relationships than
representation.  I know there is music software that will let you see
notes highlight as they play and permit you to change the
voicing/instrumentation of each part; for that you would have to work
with a score rather than a recording.  Of course there are the
programs that turn frequency and amplitude into visual depictions of
the pulses.  To actually study how the music is made, I think
sublime1's suggestion of studying harmonics is an excellent one.  But
I am sure that by now one of the legions of
programmer-mathematician-musicians must also have come up with a way
for software to analyze and display the relationships graphically on
the basis of the numeric relationships of the notes.  So I'm watching
this one with interest too.

As for music from pictures and vice versa, of course that is possible
by the same means that digitizes graphic images.  I know of a man who
makes music out of the sequences of amino acids in proteins.

Apteryx

catdo --

I think I have found a tool that might be of special interest to you. 
Here is an excerpt of its description by its author:

"The Music Animation Machine display is a score without any measures
or clefs, in which information about the music's structure is conveyed
with bars of color representing the notes. These bars scroll across
the screen as the music plays. Their position on the screen tells you
their pitch and their timing in relation to each other. Different
colors denote different instruments or voices, thematic material, or
tonality. And each note lights up at the exact moment it sounds, so
you can't lose your place.

"The experience of watching the Music Animation Machine can be a
remarkable awakening to the inner structure of music, especially for
people who are sensitive to music but lack the training to "see
inside" a conventional musical score."

This quote and much more information about the tool can be found at this Web site:
The Music Animation Machine: A Tool For Listeners
http://www.well.com/user/smalin/overview.html

I would be very interested in knowing if this is the kind of music
appreciation aid that interests you.  Even if this is not a "complete"
answer to your question, your reaction to this site might help us to
zero in on the kind of information that might be of most use to you. 
There is a whole lot of material out there in the general area of
graphic and computer-assisted representations of musical ideas.

markj-ga

Wow!  That was my reaction when I saw this.  And I'm betting catado
will think so too.  It's a fabulous way to see music displayed.

But my sons took one look and said that this is just old MIDI
notation--"very retro," they said:  it's how they used to enter music
into our old 486 computer 8 or 9 years ago using some kind of musical
software.  You place and extend the bars with mouse clicks and it's
rendered into music.  My older boy said he put all of Pachelbel's
Canon in D into the computer from sheet music that way when he was
about 11.  He thinks this is just that in reverse and converted into a
video.

Still, I think it's a pretty stunning effect.

Apteryx

Hello All,
Well, I don?t want to be mellow-dramatic here, but this has been such
an incredible experience for me.  All of you have contributed to my
knowledge, and answered my question with vigor and so much more
accurately and than I would have ever expected.
I literally fell over with laughter because of the pinpoint accuracy
of Sublime1?s comment re: art and music,
?ArtSong is a musical toy that assigns musical properties to colors in
an image, and uses a fractal overlay to move its sampling cursor
around the image.?  And then further explained to this novice, how to
accept an answer and how to tip more than one person. Just what I was
wondering!

Then, markj came up with EXACTLY what I was so crudely trying to
explain!  This is it!
http://www.well.com/user/smalin/overview.html 
I was astounded at what this guy has tried ? his historical attempts
at exploring different musical transcription was exactly what has been
bouncing around in my head.
If he were to further pursue this matter, I, so boldly, would ask that
he take the current 2-Dimentional product, the Music Animation
Machine, and turn it 45 degrees to the right and connect the notes
3-dimentionally in order to explore that relationship as well.  Ha,
like I can talk!

Apteryx, as far as your 11 yr old sons? ?hobbies?, well, I have a few
years on him, and feel behind enough as it is! Next thing ya know your
dog will be playing the clarinet. :)
Thanks to you, and PinkFreud as well, for your valuable insights,
links and comments.

This experience has been a real eye-opener for me; I appreciate all of
the time and effort offered!
I will close the question shortly.

Sincerely, CataDo-ga

I would like the official answer to come from markj:

Subject: Re: Music - Theory and Computer Application 
From: markj-ga on 05 Nov 2003 05:17 PST     
catdo -- 
 
I think I have found a tool that might be of special interest to you. 
Here is an excerpt of its description by its author:
 
"The Music Animation Machine display is a score without any measures
or clefs, in which information about the music's structure is conveyed
with bars of color representing the notes. These bars scroll across
the screen as the music plays. Their position on the screen tells you
their pitch and their timing in relation to each other. Different
colors denote different instruments or voices, thematic material, or
tonality. And each note lights up at the exact moment it sounds, so
you can't lose your place.
 
"The experience of watching the Music Animation Machine can be a
remarkable awakening to the inner structure of music, especially for
people who are sensitive to music but lack the training to "see
inside" a conventional musical score."
 
This quote and much more information about the tool can be found at this Web site: 
The Music Animation Machine: A Tool For Listeners 
http://www.well.com/user/smalin/overview.html 
 
I would be very interested in knowing if this is the kind of music
appreciation aid that interests you.  Even if this is not a "complete"
answer to your question, your reaction to this site might help us to
zero in on the kind of information that might be of most use to you. 
There is a whole lot of material out there in the general area of
graphic and computer-assisted representations of musical ideas.
 
markj-ga

catado --

Thanks for the rating and the kind words.

markj-ga