Where does Shakespeare use the word Plentarch (along, I think, with
Dearth). Why is it not in the OED inter alia?

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 02 Nov 2003 12:56 PST

I can find no instance of this word's existence other than as a proper
noun referring to a certain Pompeiian high priest in ancient times.
None of the Shakespeare concordances list the word 'plentarch',
although 'dearth' appears several times.

Can you tell us where you encountered this word?

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Clarification of Question by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 15:04 PST

Yes, it was my experience also that the  Pompeiian high Priest was the
only hit the computer gave back. I am dredging the word out of my
memory and a discussion once I had decades back with someone who
imputed it to Shakespeare and the juxtaposition of dearth and
plentarch as antonyms in one sentence. I no long remember the
sentence, either never had it right or failed to appreciate the
creativity of my companion. The word seems like it should be
legitimate. It fills a gap in the language, and the sound has a snap
and is onomatopoetically potent, in my opinion (well, overstated some,
but I like the word). Have I indulged in a neologism here? I think I
will continue to do so even if i cannot find support, but it makes me
cringe to think I have unwittingly written it for public consumption.
Thanks for all so far, DT

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 02 Nov 2003 15:13 PST

Is it possible that the word you're remembering is "plenitude?" This
word is an antonym of "dearth."

You might want to look through this list of words beginning with
"plen-" to see whether anything rings a bell:

http://www.onelook.com/?w=plen*

(Love your phrase "onomatopoetically potent"!)

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Clarification of Question by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 16:22 PST

Thank you for the onomato... comment. I am certain that it was
plentarch. Plentitude is just fine but weak and with too many
syllables. I think you must be right about the illegitimacy of the
word. I accept it, but I will not formally correct it with friends who
seem at the moment to have accepted the authority of my memory backed
up by the invocation of Shakespeare. Maybe I can contrive to get it
into the OED at some point. People have done worse.

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Clarification of Question by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 16:25 PST

PS Many thanks for the great dictionary site! DT

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Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 02 Nov 2003 16:35 PST

Might the word be "foison"?

As in:

Antony and Cleopatra
Act 2, Scene 7

MARK ANTONY	[To OCTAVIUS CAESAR]  Thus do they, sir: they take
	the flow o' the Nile
	By certain scales i' the pyramid; they know,
	By the height, the lowness, or the mean, if dearth
	Or foison follow: the higher Nilus swells,
	The more it promises: as it ebbs, the seedsman
	Upon the slime and ooze scatters his grain,
	And shortly comes to harvest.

Not especially close in sound to Plentarch, but then again, foison
does have a certain frisson...

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Clarification of Question by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 18:16 PST

There is definite charm in foison but it lies, I think, in the 'foison
follow' through, bountifulness that flows mellifluously out the mouth
of the cornucopia, whereas plentarch erupts into the land like a blast
from a conch proclaiming glut pure and simple. I know the passage. I
wish it were foison. I like that word too.

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Clarification of Question by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 18:19 PST

PS Compliments on the 'frisson.' Pleasing and, yes, frissonable in itself.

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Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 02 Nov 2003 19:15 PST

Thanks.

By the way, if you head here:

http://www.it.usyd.edu.au/~matty/Shakespeare/test.html

and type "dearth" into the search box, it will return 11 passages from
the Bard's plays and poems, reputed to be all his uses of the word
"deart".  Perhaps one of them will ring a bell...blast a
conch...whatever.

paf

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Clarification of Question by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 21:33 PST

Thank you for the Bard site. It is marvelous. I think I am becoming
aware that we shall not find plentarch though Plentarch hath found
itself fully served. This string has strung its way to its end, alas,
stretching far without parting. Now it is time for that too. Regrets.

I do not know the protocol here. No answer, except a null one, was
found. The fault is mine, and I anticipate that payment is in order.
If not, then I have another question to ask in the place of this one,
nay, even besides this one. The question:

What is the provenance of the phrase Seven Servants, the name of
Wilfred Bion's work? Will this work or do we need to start another
thread?

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Request for Question Clarification by justaskscott-ga on 02 Nov 2003 21:41 PST

I think I have the answer to your original question.  The Roman
biographer Plutarch (rather than "plentarch") has been often
associated with dearth, in connection with one of Shakespeare's plays.
 If you believe this sounds right, I would be happy to post an answer
with the information I have on this connection.

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Clarification of Question by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 21:48 PST

Yes, let's hear the Plutarch connection. The word is closer than any
other to plentarch and probably lives in an adjoining neuron, having
wandered into its neighbor's home at some point. Thank you. Nobody in
this thread seems to be wearing a pointy hat.

Hello olasduif-ga,

I'm about to stop work for the night, but thought that, rather than
leave you in suspense, I would indicate the connection, and provide
Google and Amazon.com searches that relate to it.  (You can view the
pages listed in the Amazon.com results if you are registered with the
site.)

Plutarch wrote about Coriolanus, and so did Shakespeare; and both
wrote about the "dearth" in connection with that subject.  (You can
see Shakespeare's use of "dearth" in Coriolanus by searching for the
word on the page mentioned by pafalafa-ga.)

By looking at some of the results from the following searches, you can
learn more about Plutarch, Shakespeare, dearth, and Coriolanus:

'Searched the web for plutarch dearth coriolanus shakespeare'
Google
://www.google.com/search?q=plutarch+dearth+coriolanus+shakespeare&num=30&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&filter=0

'All results for: plutarch dearth coriolanus shakespeare'
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=stripbooks&field-keywords=plutarch%20dearth%20coriolanus%20shakespeare&search-type=ss&bq=1/104-6868787-6284708

You can also try searches for just two or three of these words, in
order to find other relevant pages.

Please let me know if you need any further information.  At this time,
I will assume that I should cite a few of the most relevant results in
a clarification of my answer -- and so I intend to post those results
some time tomorrow.

- justaskscott-ga


Search terms used on Google and Amazon.com:

plutarch shakespeare dearth
plutarch coriolanus shakespeare dearth
plutarch coriolanus dearth

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Request for Answer Clarification by olasduif-ga on 02 Nov 2003 23:28 PST

I am looking forward to the redaction of your response. Thank you, Olasduif

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Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 03 Nov 2003 19:20 PST

The best description of this topic that I have found online appears on
pages 33-34 of this book:

"The Tragedy of Coriolanus (Oxford World's Classics)by William
Shakespeare, R.B. Parker (Editor)"
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0192836056/ref=sib_rdr_dp/104-6868787-6284708?no=283155&st=books&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER

If you "search inside the book" with the terms <plutarch dearth
coriolanus shakespeare>, you will see a link to page 33.

You have probably already seen the word "dearth" as used in
Coriolanus; here it is in Plutarch:

"Plutarch (A.D. 46?–c.A.D. 120).  Plutarch's Lives.  The Harvard
Classics.  1909–14.  Coriolanus" [in paragraph 16]
Bartleby.com
http://www.bartleby.com/12/5.html

The following page notes that "David George's 'Plutarch, Insurrection,
and Dearth in Coriolanus' traces the apparent parallels between the
'dearth' of Plutarch's narrative and Jacobean patterns of grain
shortage and insurrection, to discover Shakespeare's shaping hand."

Google cache of "Recent Studies in Tudor and Stuart Drama", W. B.
Worthen (SEL Studies in English Literature 1500-1900 42.2 (2002)
399-448)
Metropolitan State University
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:Nt3KhhRXO1YJ:www.metrostate.edu/cgi-bin/troxy/lproxy.cgi/URL-muse.jhu.edu/journals/studies_in_english_literature/v042/42.2worthen.html

Also, the description of another edition of Shakespeare's Coriolanus
states, "A substantial introduction situates the play within its
contemporary social and political contexts - dearth, riots, the
struggle over authority between James 1 and his first parliament, the
travails of Essex and Ralegh - and pays particular attention to
Shakespeare's shaping of his primary source in Plutarch's Lives."

"Coriolanus - Penguin Shakespeare"
Penguin UK
http://www.penguin.co.uk/Book/PrinterFriendly/0,1897,0140707034,00.html?cs=503

The question remained intractable and the world rotated around it in a
most interested and creative way, coming closer, I think, to a meaning
that should have been, had my unconscious been as fertile (and
erudite) as my researchers.' From plentarch to dearth is also a subtle
metacommentary on an impossible request. Well done and thank you.

Another good "ple-" word which is an antonym of "dearth" is "plethora."

Any chance you mean 'plangent'? It's onomatopaeic and means:
resounding, having a full, deep, or rich sound. Could be used in
antithesis to 'dearth'.

Duh! It ain't onomatopaeic. And it doesn't appear in pafalafa's
Shakespeare search engine either. I'll just sit over here in the
corner with my pointy hat on while you all sort this out.

Plethora is great. I do wish it had a hard consonant, though, like
Plekora. Oh, well? Plangent is wonderful. Same criticism but I mean to
take it to heart. It does resound. Thank you.

If one were to suppose that Plentarch were formed along the same lines
as Oligarch, then it ought to be defined as someone who rules from
surfeit. Probably, it should  be formed as Pleontarch. Neither word
exists, however.

Pleonectic, however, does exist, meaning inclined to take more than
one's share, greedy.

hlabadie-ga

Thank you, hlabadie-ga, for the rich meditations. Pleonexus, of
course, as I recall it - and my recall should be regarded with caution
- is what's wrong with everything ultimately, according to Plato
(Republic?), and may be thought of as the arch sin or should we say,
just between us, the sinarch. I think Plato is probably right about
this. As my own imagination evolves, I do wonder if Plentarch was not
so regarded;, i.e., as ruling from plenty. I see from my sources that
he redacted celtic laws into a concise 38 points. Is that
plentarchical? Anyway, succussion does work if one persists, or so it
seems.