In answering my earlier question you mentioned that duplicate pages
can get me banned and I will take steps to correct this  but I thought
it was ok because I saw other sites doing it. For example
www.drumbum.com has the four top listings for the keyword drum lessons
and two of these are duplicates and he has many other duplicates
throughout Google. What is the difference with his site? Thank you in
advance for your answer.

Hi, Roger ~

Here are some links from Webmaster World discussions about duplicate
sites, how much can "safely" be duplicated, how much can "safely" be
duplicated without getting caught, etc.

"Duplicate Content Penalty - % not to be considered a duplicate?"
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum10003/2479.htm


"Duplicate content, apart from G,....does anyone else care?"
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum10/2101.htm


"Duplicate Pages - how big a problem? Similar versus duplicate....does
Google really drop us for this?"
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum10003/1766.htm


"duplicate a site - how google would index my second duplicated site?"
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum10003/2448.htm?highlight=duplicate


And there are many more. I used the search term "duplicate sites" ...
you can search Webmaster World from this URL:
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/help.cgi?cat=search


This is from GoogleGuy (who is a real Google engineer who posts in
Webmaster World - and perhaps the closest to official word from Google
we'll get), in a thread entitled "google and rules why dont they tell
it?"

   "The common-sense things are pretty easy:
    - don't cloak
    - don't use hidden text
    - don't use hidden links
    - don't use sneaky redirects
    - don't use doorway pages
    - don't use programs that automatically
      query google
    - don't use multiple domains with substantially
      identical content
    - don't use tricks that artificially try to inflate
      your PageRank"

   "An easy rule of thumb is "avoid doing things just to rank
    better on google that don't really improve your site." That's
    not so hard, right? ;)"

   "Seriously: google can't talk about exactly what spammy things
    we're going to target, because that gives valuable information
    to people who would try to abuse it. Giving incredibly detailed
    guidelines would help webmasters, but it would also help
    spammers. That's why we have to give out less detail."
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum10003/2037.htm


This is from the Google FAQs on Webmaster World:

   "Q: [Webmasters] How big of a problem are duplicate pages?
    A: They can be a serious problem for a website. There are
       both legitimate and illegitimate uses of duplicate
       pages. The best thing to do, is put a noindex tag on
       those that you don't want indexed."
   - http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/1766.htm
 	 

The above are just an idea of what I found searching the Webmaster
World site. If you look through the discussion titles on the Google
News discussion board, you can find discussions from webmasters/owners
who lament that their site(s) have been banned and admit it was for
duplicate content.

There are a lot of sites that are doing things Google specifically
warns against and right now seem to be "getting away with it". This
doesn't mean that tomorrow - or the next day - Google won't adjust its
algorithms and those sites disappear from Google's index!

You can almost tell every time such an adjustment - and the resultant
- is made just from moving through the topics of the Google News
discussion list.

The point becomes whether it is worth risking it - or is it just
easier to play by the rules, provide relevant content, done in good
HTML so every browser (including search engine crawlers) can read and
find all the pages, and get links from other *relevant* sites TO your
own to increase page rank?


=========================
With regard to DrumBum
=========================

You're right, it does appear that drumsdatabase.com seems to be a
doorway page to drumbum.com and that its page is identical to
drumbum.com/lessons.htm. That's not to say it/they will stay like that
forever.

You can report it on Google's Spam Report. There is a category for
both "doorway page" and for "duplicate content". The Spam Report page
is here:
   - ://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html


=====================
Summary
=====================

There are plenty of sites out there. Google has indexed "3,307,998,701 web pages".
   - ://www.google.com


Ultimately, the best search engines will deliver the best sites to the
searchers. Search engines are getting better at it every day, and
Google really is the best. I suspect they want to stay the best, so
the question bears repeating - why risk it?


Thanks again, Roger ... I know it's frustrating, but hang in there and
keep improving your own site. Eventually those who are not following
the rules will be penalized in one form or another, I'm sure.

Serenata

Thanks again for a great, PROMPT, answer!

Hi Roger,

Thank you so much for the rating and the tip. As you can imagine, a
tip is always appreciated, and it was generous of you to include it.

Thanks again,
Serenata