On my PC, I've created a website, using a simple template program
called Website Complete, bought from GoDaddy.com, an online service
that stores domain names, hosts websites, and so on. I've had the site
live for almost a year, also hosted by GoDaddy.
Problem: I gather that different programming is needed to make a site
Mac-accessible, so of course mine does not work right on Macs (I've
seen this for myself, on a friend's Mac). Is there any inexpensive solution? I
assume I could hire a programmer, maybe a college student, to create a
Mac version of the site (or a version which works on PCs and
Macs?)...but even then, I'd have new costs for every update. I modify the site
frequently, so I'd have to have new Mac versions frequently too.
This is important to me for business reasons, since I'm a teacher and
author of a children's book, and I'd like the site to be accessible to
schools, which of course typically use Macs. In fact, my book is being
used and/or recommended by a number of school.
The site is: www.bradburg.com
Maybe there IS no solution other than working with a programmer, which
may mean at rather high expense. I'd just appreciate some perspective
on this, in any case.
Thanks!
(Incidentally, in case anyone can use such info: Website Complete is
very efficient and user-friendly. The program has some awkward spots,
but that's reasonable, considering its extremely low cost, $14.95. And
GoDaddy's web hosting runs about $5 to $10 a month.) |
Request for Question Clarification by
mvguy-ga
on
27 Nov 2003 23:53 PST
Could you please explain what the problems are with viewing the site
on a Mac? Is it just some parts of the page that don't display right,
or is it everything? Is the problem with all browsers or just some?
FYI, the scrolling marquee doesn't display right with recent versions
of Opera and Mozilla for Windows. The page apparently uses some
IE-specific scripting, so that may be the problem. In other words, it
may not be a Mac problem but a problem with any browser other than
Internet Explorer.
|
Clarification of Question by
bbb-ga
on
28 Nov 2003 12:09 PST
To mvguy-ga:
Thanks for the interest and the insight. Your comment raises 2 points:
1. I don't have a Mac with Internet access right now, so I can't
answer your question--which is certainly crucial! In fact, your
question suggests that only someone with internet access on both a PC
and Mac might be able to answer my query fully, because it might be
necessary to compare the way the website looks and "behaves" on both,
when scrolling, clicking, playing music, etc., etc. I can't make that
comparison, right now, so I can't answer what you're asking,
unfortunately.
(I do remember, when visiting my site on a Mac, months ago, that the
layout of almost every page appeared odd, with boxes shifted around
and "squeezed" oddly, I think. I also have heard from some people that
the music--I have several songs on my site--does not play at all on
their Macs.)
2. Your point about browsers is another crucial one. I hope that
Netscape is free, because I'm going to try to download it and use it.
But even if I can run it, I must depend on the expertise of others to
tell me the full story about that. (There may be issues with Netscape
browsing that would not be obvious on a few quick visits to my site).
So -- you raised two important issues, for which I thank you, but as I
considered them, I think I need answers from people with access to
both PCs and Macs, and with much experience with a number of browsers.
Let me know what you think, please.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
maniac-ga
on
28 Nov 2003 15:00 PST
Hello Bbb,
Mvguy makes a good point. There may be some specific HTML features you
are using that are not supported by all browsers.
Viewing the "home page" as an example, the marquee:
- in Safari (my default browser), is left aligned and does not move
- in IE 5.2, scrolls from right to left
- in Netscape 6.2, is left aligned and does not move
The initial page appears pretty much the same on all three browsers.
The menu on the left on all appears a little too short for the text in
all browsers.
I tried playing the "Swing Song" and heard
- in Safari, it launches Windows Media Player and starts to play the
song. About 1/3rd of the way through it breaks up badly - perhaps a
little less audio quality is required for playing on a 56k modem.
- in IE, it did not work at all
- in Netscape 6.2, I get the "save to disk" dialog and if I launch
WMP with that file, it does the same as above.
I can certainly repeat tests like these with IE/Mozilla on Windows,
Mozilla/Konqueror/etc. on Linux as well as the tests above on the
Macintosh. There may be further suggestions that could be made related
to the scripts to get you something acceptable on a variety of
platforms.
--Maniac
|
Clarification of Question by
bbb-ga
on
28 Nov 2003 17:22 PST
Maniac--thanks for all this info and checking. To keep things clear, I
started by copying most of your text below (each preceded by
"Maniac"), and I'll interpolate my questions, numbered as BB1, BB2,
etc.
Maniac A:
Viewing the "home page" as an example, the marquee:
- in Safari (my default browser), is left aligned and does not move
- in IE 5.2, scrolls from right to left
- in Netscape 6.2, is left aligned and does not move
The initial page appears pretty much the same on all three browsers.
BBA-1: So the marquee's no good in 2 out of 3. And Netscape is pretty major.
BBA-2: How common is Safari, by the way?
Maniac B:
The menu on the left on all appears a little too short for the text in
all browsers.
BB B-1. Not sure what you mean. The menu of buttons is quite short on
many pages anyway (only items, in many cases). So this may NOT be a
problem area.
Maniac C:
I tried playing the "Swing Song" and heard
- in Safari, it launches Windows Media Player and starts to play the
song. About 1/3rd of the way through it breaks up badly - perhaps a
little less audio quality is required for playing on a 56k modem.
- in IE, it did not work at all
- in Netscape 6.2, I get the "save to disk" dialog and if I launch
WMP with that file, it does the same as above.
BB C-1. Testing on a 56k modem is a key idea, which I'd completely
forgotten to mention. I assume you were on one machine here, testing
that modem with all 3 browsers--and found it didn't work with ANY of
them? And this was on a PC....So this is a big problem, I think.
BB C-2: I assume, from your knowledgeability here, that you also have
fast internet access. Have you tried the site with that, on a PC?
Maniac-D:
I can certainly repeat tests like these with IE/Mozilla on Windows,
Mozilla/Konqueror/etc. on Linux as well as the tests above on the
Macintosh. There may be further suggestions that could be made related
to the scripts to get you something acceptable on a variety of
platforms.
BB DD-1. Are Mozilla/Konqueror etc common enough to be concerned
about? I know the Macintosh is, and so is the slow-modem situation.
I greatly appreciate your help, and of course I'd greatly appreciate
your doing some testing on the Mac. But I don't want to take advantage
(though I'd also pay something more than $15 for a batch of tests)....
or try to do the impossible. So: What's your assessment overall? It
looks as though I may need to work with a consultant in person (or at
least a student consultant), to have a website that works.
Thoughts?
Thanks... bbb
|
Request for Question Clarification by
maniac-ga
on
28 Nov 2003 18:51 PST
Hello Bbb,
Some feedback on your comments.
BBA-1: So the marquee's no good in 2 out of 3. And Netscape is pretty major.
Yes, but see below.
BBA-2: How common is Safari, by the way?
IE is the most common browser by several measures (web site logs) but
sometimes the logs lie - to make sites work with other browsers (e.g.,
Opera). Safari on the Macintosh is expected to be quite popular. It is
provided by Apple on every new OS X distribution and runs quite well.
As a side note, Safari uses the same rendering software as khtml -
from the KDE desktop on Linux. For a reference see:
http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat_trends.htm
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-938865.html
and other sources. Not sure how these relate specifically to the
possible customers of your site - but a review of the server logs may
help you identify what your users will use.
BB B-1. Not sure what you mean. The menu of buttons is quite short on
many pages anyway (only items, in many cases). So this may NOT be a
problem area.
If that is what you wanted it to look like - then fine.
BB C-1. Testing on a 56k modem is a key idea, which I'd completely
forgotten to mention. I assume you were on one machine here, testing
that modem with all 3 browsers--and found it didn't work with ANY of
them? And this was on a PC....So this is a big problem, I think.
My testing was on a 56k modem using an iMac DV, 400 Mhz G3. An older
machine, but fast enough for testing. For reference, I checked the
"statistics" in Windows Media Player and it says that the data would
be best at 129 Kbps, but I was getting between 33 and 40 Kbps, so the
problem was the data rate.
BB C-2: I assume, from your knowledgeability here, that you also have
fast internet access. Have you tried the site with that, on a PC?
As mentioned above, I generally use a dial up line. I can check
[later] on a couple PC systems with better bandwidth, but my original
feedback was on a machine more typical of the Mac users you seem to be
interested in.
BB DD-1. Are Mozilla/Konqueror etc common enough to be concerned
about? I know the Macintosh is, and so is the slow-modem situation.
As a side note, recent versions of Mozilla and Netscape are basically
the same as far as functionality. As Linux systems get more widely
used you will start to see people using Konqueror, Opera, and other
similar products. They may be the niche for now, but if you are
looking ahead, keeping it simple now would handle these systems as
well.
As for the testing, let me suggest browsing through the site with the
three Mac browsers
- IE 5.2
- Safari
- Netscape 6.2
and I'll explain what I see; what works and does not, and make some
recommendations. Does that sound acceptable? You can adjust the
overall price with the tip if you think the answer is worth more than
the $15 offered.
--Maniac
|
Clarification of Question by
bbb-ga
on
01 Dec 2003 12:45 PST
First, thanks, and this specific, detailed help will certainly be
worth $25 to me--especially after you do the further checking you
indicated.
Some questions:
Maniac wrote:
...but a review of the server logs may help you identify what your users will use.
BB: GoDaddy does provide logs, and I've checked them. But since my
site doesn't work on Macs, apparently, the only figure which will be
meaningful is the one showing how many users initially accessed the
site -- but I'll have to ignore Mac users in totals of how many then
went on to access various pages, since Mac users will presumably exit
right away. Am I right about this?
And even here, it may be moot. I know from many sources that schools
generally prefer Macs....So the statistics on my site are not crucial,
next to that fact.
Maniac wrote:
As for the testing, let me suggest browsing through the site with the
three Mac browsers
- IE 5.2
- Safari
- Netscape 6.2
and I'll explain what I see; what works and does not, and make some
recommendations. Does that sound acceptable?
Yes, as indicated, and $25 is fine, especially if you can do the
testing you mentioned--and if you can summarize things in those
recommendations. Essentially, what I need to know is:
1. What's a reasonable minimum of complexity I need, for people to
have access (to graphics and music, too), even if they're using Macs?
|
Clarification of Question by
bbb-ga
on
01 Dec 2003 12:52 PST
CONTINUED -- Somehow I posted I finished editing (it would be more
sensible if Google's editing program asked, "Are you really through?",
)
2. I don't want to -- and can't -- spend time learning other
programs, just to modify my website for Macs, since I think it never
really ends... there are various browers, etc. So:
3. To achieve what I want, should i find a consultant? -- and if so:
4. Can't that consultant use a lot of what I've already created?
(This is a crucial point that will help me a great deal, since I can't
start learning all these browsers, etc.--especially since everything
updates and changes very often)
Thanks,
BBB
.
|
Hello Bbb,
To paraphrase a comment made on one of your pages
"Some people want the cliff notes version.... answer #1"
For the most part, the web site works fine on the Macintosh using the
three most likely browsers to be used (Internet Explorer - IE 5.1,
Netscape 6.2, and Safari 1.0.1). The problems appear to be limited to:
- the animated text (marquee) works in IE only. For safari, I
reported its failure as a bug to Apple, perhaps it will be fixed in a
future version but there are other animations that work just fine -
for examples see
http://developer.apple.com/internet/javascript/jstests.html
which has a series of tests, two have varying forms of dynamic text.
- the fonts in some cases are just too small / hard to read.
- the "Swing Song" appears to be the only one which doesn't play
well. But since its featured, I hesitated playing the others but was
glad I did.
The first problem could be solved with Flash if you can make those
effects or see if another method (e.g., the DHTML javascript test)
works as well. The second problem can be avoided by requesting fonts
at 10pt or larger, or just use the default of the browser which is
generally set to the user's convenience. The third problem can be
solved by swapping the "featured song" with another one and putting a
caution on the swing song where it appears.
#2 - I don't think you need new tools (unless you need them for Flash).
#3 - It is your option. I realize that money may be a problem but
there are some good free on line resources such as
http://www.useit.com/
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/
where there are a number of observations / guidelines provided at no
cost (or a reasonable fee for some of the extensive reports) on a
regular basis. I regularly read Alertbox to stay current with web
design features / problems.
#4 - Absolutely.
The longer version (basically my notes as I browsed the site) follow.
Take the comments with a grain of salt - as I mention above, the site
basically works with the Macintosh but if you handle the items covered
above, you get 80% of the improvement.
Good luck with your site and your book sales.
--Maniac
The details follow.....
Initial, Site Map, Endless Poem pages - loads well in all three browsers.
Home page - appears OK in all browsers but the moving text only works
in IE.
Swing poem page - appears OK in all browsers but the song requires a
high speed connection. At 56k, Windows Media Player will play OK for
about 6 seconds and then pause / break up badly. I even tried
increasing the buffering to 60 seconds (longer than the song - but no
change in behavior). The other song pages encoded at 32k sounded great
and had no lost packets (from the statistics page).
Graphic poetry pages - all appear OK but I noticed a delay in Netscape
when I did the back / forward comparison of the swing text. The other
two browsers displayed those two pages quickly (after the initial
load) but Netscape would sit for 10-15 seconds before it would be
"done". Not sure why - but it may be a side effect of the tables you
use extensively, Netscape was always slow displaying tables.
Balloon, short legs pages - Again, the marquee does not work at all
in either Netscape nor Safari.
Connect the Dots - the text indicates you can "Click on the picture,
and print options should appear." but that does not work on any of the
three browsers. Using the print menu option prints the page in all
three browsers but IE prints 2 pages (page break below image),
Netscape 3 (page break above / below image), and Safari 1. IE has
a white background, Netscape has a white background, and Safari has an
orange background. Odd that IE omits the book / child images from the
output. Netscape also chops off the right side of the large image.
Between the Cracks - looks OK after it is fully loaded, but the large
green box appeared before the gray box covered it the first time I
loaded the page in IE (second time did not do the same effect). I can
see the green outline most clearly in Netscape.
Teacher Page - looks OK. Not sure what Amazon.com was displaying for
"Catch", but it did not appear for me when I followed the link. Hmm. I
looked again and perhaps it was the one line quote about the visual
effect of zooming across the page. If so, I'd just repeat it here and
refer to the original as a reference.
I went through the rest of the pages as well, they all looked fine.
Design comments
Initial page - I note it uses Flash. This may be a problem with some
users - for reference see:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html
because I see this as "fluff" and something that gets in the way of
finding out about your book and other resources.
Home Page - The home page establishes a theme for the rest of the
site. Your site name at the top, a strong phrase right below it (with
link) and the menu on the right. This is a good design but does not
carry through uniformly throughout the site. For example, on many
pages the menu is not the same as the home page. Use of server side
includes could solve this problem, other methods (e.g., style sheets)
can work as well but might not be as portable to other browsers.
Site Map - the top link takes you to the splash screen (not the home
page) which I find annoying. Others may too.
Graphic poetry series - the titles change each time, not quite sure
why but it was something I noticed when I saw the title of "Just For
Kids -- Part 5" on the page but the title bar said
JustForKidsGraphicPoetry04.
The Balloon Page and others like it in the site index should have a
link taking you to the next one. I found it annoying to go back to
select the next one. Oops, I found that link hiding in the Balloon
page, but then Short Legs did not have it.
General comment - some of the text is a little small for the older
people (say grandparents) who may be interested in your book and
purchase it. When I make the text larger with the browser (several
times), I notice the menu on the right is done using graphics (and not
text) so that text remains small. There was also an odd behavior when
I choose a large size (e.g., 300%) where the top images are repeated
two or three times.
I found the links with a single word (or two) harder to find than when
the phrase was longer. It was not so bad on the reader comment page
where the contrast is really good, but the site map basically hides
the link for teachers after all those long link anchors.
Search engine optimization:
I should mention that your site does not currently rank highly with
Google, even with the explicit phrase
"outside the lines"
I had to add your name to the search before your site appears as a top
search item. Using the full title
"outside the lines poetry at play"
makes your site show up on the first page but I would not have guessed
that name from viewing the cover page of the book. You may want to
dedicate a page with the title
Outside the Lines: Poetry at Play
to help boost your position in searches.
Using "Click Here" as the text for a link does not give any guidance
to the search engine. For example, on Google, there are over 15
million hits for the phrase
"Click Here"
but only four hits for
"see and hear a poem"
with your site as the first page. |
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2 Comments
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