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Q: To sublime1-ga only. ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: To sublime1-ga only.
Category: Computers
Asked by: barnaclau-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 07 Dec 2003 13:53 PST
Expires: 06 Jan 2004 13:53 PST
Question ID: 284503
I would like to know if you could help me out with this:

MIDI Experiment

1 ? Create a short solo for any instrument. Comment on how closely the
synthesis approaches the sound of the real instrument.

2 ? Experiment with transposing. Discuss the sound of instruments
played outside their normal range.

3 ? Test and comment on lots of different instruments. Try some of the
sound-effect-type instruments.

4 ? Create the tune of ?Frere Jacques? on a single instrument. Then
cut and paste it to form a round on four different instruments. How do
you ensure the instruments are synchronised?

The other information that is required with the answer of these four questions is:

-- Details of what software you used.
-- Details of the most important settings.
-- The technique you employed to achieve each task.
-- Any problems you encountered, and how you dealt with them.
-- Any advantages or disadvantages concerning the technique in use.
-- Subjective comments about the sonic quality of the synthesised output.
-- What you achieved and whether it would be possible with analogue technology.

If you need any other info or if you are not able to help me at this
time, please let me know.

Thank you for your time,
Claudia

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 07 Dec 2003 18:10 PST
Hi Claudia...

I certainly appreciate your asking for me.

I expect that the assignment would take a few consecutive hours
to complete, and I'm unlikely to have that luxury until Wednesday,
Dec 10th.

My synth has a built-in sequencer, and I don't have any PC
"software" to use in cutting and pasting 'Frere Jacques'.
I could likely accomplish this on the built-in sequencer,
but I'm not sure this would satisfy the assignment.

Other than that, I could probably complete the assignment
as indicated, however, I must express the following concerns.

I'm not sure whether this is a 'homework' assignment, or 
if it constitutes some other form of research. I completed
the first experiment because it was not clearly indicated
that it was homework, and, given the requirements of the
experiment for the availability of a snythesizer and a PC,
and your immediate deadline, I thought that, even if it was
homework, assistance on a one-time basis would allow you 
time to gain access to the equipment you required for 
future projects.

If this is, indeed, homework, I am reluctant to continue to
do the assignments 'for' you, and would prefer to assist you,
as required, with understanding some of the principles around
which the questions revolve, as I personally believe this 
would better serve the learning process.

Please don't feel offended by my caution in this regard. It's
just a matter of personal preference for me.

If you wouldn't mind clarifying the context of these experiments
and how my work might serve to benefit you in place of your own
hands-on involvement, this may serve to ease my concerns regarding
continued participation in them, assuming the other limitations 
I mentioned don't pose a problem.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by barnaclau-ga on 08 Dec 2003 02:16 PST
Hello Sublime,

Thank you for your reply; I have no problem waiting until Wednesday.
And you can most certainly use the built in sequencer for this
experiment.

Regarding the status of this experiment, yes it has something to do
with my university, but not in a direct way (not getting directly
marked for your assistance), as I am doing a project where I am
researching different kinds of music production including MIDI and
others such as New midi, CAN, MIDI-CAN, ZIPI, etc. And comparing them
to the traditional analogous instruments.
Unfortunately I am no expert with MIDI, but as it is something I have
to deal with as part of this project, and I am doing various
experiments, I have asked different persons to help me out as part of
the research.

I do hope this does fall into your non assignment category.

Thank you for your help, and I do understand your concerns,
Claudia

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 08 Dec 2003 07:22 PST
"I do hope this does fall into your non assignment category."

It does, and if I can find the time to do the work prior to
Wednesday, I will do so. Thanks very much for your understanding.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by barnaclau-ga on 08 Dec 2003 07:55 PST
Thank you,
Claudia
Answer  
Subject: Re: To sublime1-ga only.
Answered By: sublime1-ga on 10 Dec 2003 17:28 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hi Claudia...

I got carried away with a train of thought in section 1, and 
ended up addressing some of the concepts in 2 and 3 there.
I hope this irregularity of format doesn't matter with respect
to the overall presentation:

1 - The majority of the basic instruments (piano, sax, guitar, flute)
on the Kurzweil, as with many synths, are sampled, which is to say 
they are a series of several audio waveforms which have been 
digitally recorded and are laid out across the keyboard, with each 
sample being used for several consecutive keys - the pitch of the 
sample being raised as it moves up the keys. Because of this, the 
'root' sample for each group of keys is an exact duplicate of the 
instrument's sound at that pitch. As the pitch is increased for 
higher keys, the sound is duplicated, but at a higher pitch. The 
more actual samples that are used, the more authentic the sound will 
be, as each true root sample introduces the subtle variations that 
exist between individual keys of, e.g., the piano. If too few samples
are used, as the pitch is increased for higher keys, the sound begins
to be inauthentic in the same way that "The Chipmunks" voices no 
longer sound like human voices. Other anomalies can occur when the 
sample, which must be cycled, or 'looped' or repeated when a note is 
sustained, are poorly recorded, or are badly looped. The looping must 
be done at what is called a 'null' point in the sample, where there 
is minimal volume, and no transient sounds. If done poorly this can 
result in 'clicks' or 'pops', or changes in the volume of the loop 
which are clearly not part of the natural instrumental sound.

These can be found in less expensive keyboards, but in a quality 
instrument like the Kurzweil, there are a sufficient number of 
well-constructed samples that you will not hear such defects, 
and the sound will not become 'stretched' so as to sound 
inauthentic. The sound will still fall short of the original 
instrument, in that the keys which use the same root sample 
will have essentially the same dynamics, and will lack the 
key-to-key variations of the actual instrument. Within the 
context of a band or an orchestra, this will not be too 
noticeable. It is more obvious when using the instrument in 
playing solos. When played on a synth, instruments such as 
guitar will lack the subtle sounds created when the left hand 
changes chords and brushes the strings. And when playing the 
flute on a synth, the 'tremolo' is programmed and relatively 
the same regardless of the note, whereas a live flute player 
will vary the tremolo on each note (I also play guitar and 
flute, so I am acutely aware of these subtle differences). 
There have been efforts to include, e.g., the natural sounds 
of the guitar on separate, non-musical keys of the keyboard, 
so that finger-scrapes can be included in a composition, 
along with regular notes, however these are innately awkward 
to incorporate, versus their natural presence when playing a 
live guitar.

Piano - the sustain is noticeably shorter than the real 
instrument. This is not especially noticeable in pieces played
at a faster rate, but is more obvious with very slow songs. 
I was able to get around this by editing the sustain parameters
of the layers of the 'patch' - a patch being a selection on 
the keyboard which may contain several layers, each with their
own sample(s) and programming parameters. Not all keyboards 
allow for editing, so with some, you would be unable to change
the sustain in this way. The K2500 allows editing of almost 
everything.

An mp3 recording of a piece, appropriately named 'Grand 
Illusion', which uses the stereo piano samples from the K2500 
Piano ROM block, can be found on the Kurzweil site, so you can
hear for yourself how authentic it sounds. It was actually 
hearing this piece that convinced by to upgrade from a K2000 
to a K2500: 
http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/piano_rom_demos.html

Flute - It is possible to work around the fixed tremolo built
into the standard patch. It is possible to create a more 
randomized tremolo by using some of the complex or random 
mathematical operators which can be assigned to vary the volume
and pitch of the sample.

Guitar - You can produce some modulation of the sound using 
the modulation wheel. The built-in samples I have don't have 
the added natural sounds of fingers scraping strings, or the 
harmonics which can be created using a real guitar, but it is 
possible to purchase sample sets which include these.

2 - As noted above, the inauthentic sound of "The Chipmunks" 
can result when a sample is played too far above its natural 
range. When played too low, you get a bass sound which is 
muddied and indistinct, as opposed to the relatively precise 
sound of a true bass guitar.

3 - Also discussed above, though, with sound effects, the lack
of authenticity often shows up more easily. A helicopter or dog
bark played at too high a pitch for the root sample sounds very
obviously inauthentic, since there is a very small range for 
those authentic sounds. A helicopter sound, or a gunshot, 
played too high, sounds like a fake cartoon sound, lacking 
the bass which give them the authenticity of the real thing.

4 - I used the built-in sequencer in the K2500. I recorded a 
round of the song on piano, using a built-in metronome function
to start and stop in the right places. I then copied the segment
to the same track (10) using Song Edit -> Track -> Copy 1:1 to
9:1, on track (10), to location 1:9. I repeated this, now copying
1:1 to 17:1 to location 17:1 -> Done -> Exit -> Save Song. This 
gave me 4 rounds of the song.

Then, from track 10 in the song mode, I entered Edit ->Track ->
Copy from 1:1 to 31:1 (33:1 minus 2, to account for the later
entry of this track, so they will end at the same time) to track
9, location 3:1. Since this copied 'All' data to the new track, 
I then had to go to Song Edit -> Event, and scroll through them,
finding all instances of Control Bank and PCHG (Program Change)
in order to assign a different instrument in another location.
'Da Clav', e.g. is patch #24, which would be Control Bank 0, 
PCHG 24.

Then it's basically a matter of "Lather, Rinse, Repeat" to 
assign identical changes to tracks 8 and 7, giving me four 
instruments playing in a perfect round.

Had I not used the metronome, I could have afterward entered 
Song Mode, and from each track, gone to Edit -> Track -> 
Quantize, set the degree to 100% and hit 'Go', saving the 
song after altering each track. This produces absolute 
alignment with the beat.

As to contrasting the results with analog technology, I am 
less familiar with professional analog mixing techniques, 
though I have played with overdubbing on cassette and 
reel-to-reel tapes. First of all, with tape, every overdub
introduces a measure of background and amplifier noise into
the mix, so by the time you get into your 4th overdub, it's
pretty poor quality. I also know of no comparable method to
produce the perfect alignment of the 'Quantize' function, 
not to mention that this can also be used to introduce a 
certain measure of artificial 'swing' into the music.

The digital sounds, on the other hand, particularly in 
intimate solo sessions, just don't have the range of 'color'
which comes from a real piano using 3 strings for each mid 
to upper range note, with each individual string lending 
it's contribution to the overall sound, which is then 
further sweetened by the wooden cabinet itself.

For solo piano concerts, I'd want a grand piano, but for 
use in a band or for home recording, there's nothing like 
a synthesizer!

If I left anything out, or can clarify anything, just let
me know!


Please do not rate this answer until you are satisfied that
the answer cannot be improved upon by means of a dialog
established through the "Request for Clarification" process.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Answer by sublime1-ga on 10 Dec 2003 17:37 PST
Oh! I left out one of the most important advantages of the
synthesizer, in contrast to natural instruments. The synth
also provides an astonishing capacity for creating new sounds.
Since I love sounds almost as much as music, I often spend
hours tailoring a sound that, in the end, has simply never
existed before. The sound is often so enchanting that it 
takes no time at all to produce original music with it.
The sound itself seems to inspire the music. 

Analog instruments simply don't offer this range of possibilities,
and, unless they are incredibly expensive, as are the top
instruments capable of sustaining an inspiring sound for 
year after year that you own them (e.g., Stradivarius),
then they eventually lose the capacity to motivate new
creations. This is, admittedly, a personal perspective, and
other musicians may disagree.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Answer by sublime1-ga on 11 Dec 2003 07:05 PST
Good morning, Claudia...

Google Answers policies prohibit personal contact with customers,
so contact via email is not possible, and is also discouraged in
that it leaves you open to junk mail. See:
http://answers.google.com/answers/faq.html#showemail

In keeping with this, I will contact the editors to have the
Request For Clarification, which contains your email address,
removed.

I should then be able to upload the midi files to a location
on the internet from which you can download them. I will need
to ask the editors about this, as well, as there has been
concern recently about placing such files in a location 
which will be relatively permanent.

Additionally, creating the files may take a bit of time, as
I don't normally interface my synth with my computer in this
way, so it is not a routine operation for me, but I'm sure
I can accomplish it.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Answer by sublime1-ga on 11 Dec 2003 08:01 PST
Claudia...

It just caught my attention that you asked for the midi 'files',
plural. The only files I kept were some of the ones used in
creating the 'Frere Jacques' rounds, and towards the end of the
process, I overwrote the last version several times to arrive
at the final product, so every step in the editing process is
not represented. Would the final product do, or the incomplete
set of stepped edits, or do I need to start from scratch and
produce a complete set of consecutive edits? Or were there
other files besides 'Frere Jacques' that you wanted?

sublime1-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by barnaclau-ga on 11 Dec 2003 11:18 PST
Hello,

Thank you for your time.

I was referring to the MIDI file in question 1 and the one in question 4.
(I am under no circumstance asking for a hit song, just something
simple, that can accompany the written explanation).

The final result is fine with me.

If there was any misunderstanding caused from my improper formulation
of the questions, please forgive me.

Thank you again for your time,
Claudia

Clarification of Answer by sublime1-ga on 11 Dec 2003 18:36 PST
Hi Claudia...

Getting the file from my synth to the computer was harder
than I anticipated. First, since I hadn't anticipated you
wanting the files, I didn't record the song in GM (General
Midi) format, so I was using the Stereo Piano from the 700
bank of my synth, and this and the other instrument numbers
didn't translate well into GM.

The Cakewalk program I used to import the audio into midi
was inherited from a Windows 98 installation, and I now
have Windows 2000, so it crashed once. Fortunately a 
reboot brought it back. The original file used channel 10
for the 770 piano patch, and General Midi says channel 10
is for drums, so I had to rewrite channel 10 to channel
11 so it wouldn't play drums instead of piano. Anyway,
I fiddled around in Cakewalk, which I really don't use
very much, and ended up with 2 files, one of which may
suit your needs - frere.mid and frere1.mid.

Both of them play correctly in Windows Media player, but
seem to select different instruments than when they play
in Cakewalk, even though the midi output goes to the same
Microsoft GS Wavetable Software Synth. And if I play them
in Cakewalk, the first note gets mashed into the second.

For what they're worth, here are the links to a temporary
upload space. They should be there for a month, anyway:

http://68.15.21.151/uploads/researchers/FRERE.MID
http://68.15.21.151/uploads/researchers/FRERE1.MID

If the files aren't suitable, I'll have to start from
scratch.

Since this took up more time than I expected, I'll have
to compose and upload the solo another day. And this
time, I'll start with a GM setup...  : )

I hope that's okay with you. Just let me know.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Answer by sublime1-ga on 11 Dec 2003 22:40 PST
Okay, it's *almost* another day...  : )

Here's the piano solo midi file - 'Killing Me Softly':
http://68.15.21.151/uploads/researchers/SOFTLY.MID

If the files aren't everything you're looking for,
just let me know.

sublime1-ga
barnaclau-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
Not only did Sublime1 help me out, he did id perfectly. Always keeping
the calm about any changes that might come up due to misunderstandings
(caused by the client), and still delivering with quality.

If there is any help that I might need again, I am sure I will ask
Sublime1 before anyone else.

Thank you for your help, Sublime1,
Claudia

Comments  
Subject: Re: To sublime1-ga only.
From: sublime1-ga on 12 Dec 2003 07:19 PST
 
Claudia...

I'm pleased to learn that the files were suitable.
Thanks very much for the high praise and generous tip.

sublime1-ga

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