A kind of melancholic orchesteral piece that "spirals" upward. For
some reason the word "procoffia" (for pronunciation only, spelling is
wrong)comes to mind...could be composer or title? I also have vague
associations with muddy battle scenes when I think of it...weird...

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Request for Question Clarification by juggler-ga on 21 Dec 2003 20:01 PST

Something by Prokofiev perhaps?

Certain parts of Prokofiev's "Peter and the Wolf" are a bit melancholy
and spiraling.

Listen to a clip of the Introduction for a sample:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003FPB/

Sound familiar?

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Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 22 Dec 2003 02:35 PST

silvercaribou -- 

I agree with juggler-ga that you are very likely thinking of Sergei
Prokofiev.  Prokofiev did write some magnificent music for a few
films. Some of that music was explicitly related to battles and
battlefield scenes, and at least one example seems to fit your
"spiraling" description.

Listen first to the audio clips at both of the following links to
music that began its life as film music for the 1938 film, Alexander
Nevsky, a piece called "The Battle on the Ice."  You may want to check
out the other clips as well:

Amazon.com: Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001GQC/qid=1072061937/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/104-4643193-1663904

Barnes & Noble: Prokofiev: The Film Music
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?userid=1OOMJM4MG7&ean=47163502125


It is perfectly possible -- indeed likely, it seems to me -- that
Prokofiev's music has been imitated by others for other film scores. 
Indeed, one customer reviewer of Alexander Nevsky on Amazon.com says
that music from this film was incorporated into Conan the Barbarian,
but I have not yet tried to confirm that.

If this lead looks promising, let me know.


markj-ga

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Clarification of Question by silvercaribou-ga on 22 Dec 2003 07:29 PST

Prokofiev may very well be on the right track. I've listened to a few
of the clips suggested. My internet connection is by phone and long
distance so I can't really listen to all of the suggested clips The
one that comes closest in "feeling" is
	Alexander Nevsky: Cantata, Op. 78: The Field Of The Dead
I've come up with a few more details from my memory to help narrow the suggestions:
1 the "hook" of the piece (signature?) seems to be mostly strings and
not violin...lower, more melancholic, cello?
Also I guess it's less "spiral" than it is "plodding" it's like 3
beats up, one beat down, 2 more up, one more back, 2 more up, and one
beat down again.
It may not have been written for a movie...seems too good. also, I get
the feeling the movies I may have heard it in are more recent (last 10
years), though don't ask me to name what movies...it's just an
impression.

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Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 22 Dec 2003 09:39 PST

silvercaribou --

I, at least, will need some more clues before I can come up with more
suggestions.

The subject of your question indicate that you think that this music
is "often used" in movie soundtracks.  Does that mean that you are
sure that you have heard the same music more than once, in different
movies?

Why do you associate the music with Prokofiev (or whatever "Procoffia"
turns out to be)?

Are there any hints that you can provide, particularly about the
movies in which you have heard the music.  Were they foreign films,
for example?  Anything else?

As for the music being "too good" to have been "written for a movie," 
Prokofiev and other prominent composers (e.g., Copland, Vaughn
Williams) wrote first-rate music for films, especially in the first
half of the 20th century.

markj-ga

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Clarification of Question by silvercaribou-ga on 22 Dec 2003 10:04 PST

"heard the same music more than once, in different
movies?"

Yes, I believe this to be the case.

"Why do you associate the music with Prokofiev (or whatever "Procoffia"
turns out to be)?"

I think, within the past few months I heard the piece on the radio and
they mentioned that name...78% certain on this point.

I'm sure the movies were "hollywood" (domestic) and recent (last 10 years).
maybe "Apocalypse Now" / "Full Metal Jacket"/ "Blackhawk Down" -ish

---

Clarification of Question by silvercaribou-ga on 22 Dec 2003 17:04 PST

I may be associating the piece with more than one film because it was
used in multiple film trailers and not necessarily the soundtracks...
I'll try to create a midi & put it up somewhere on the web...not sure
how to do this, but given the attention others are paying to my
question I feel obliged.

---

Clarification of Question by silvercaribou-ga on 23 Dec 2003 16:35 PST

to: bclam-ga, Thanks for the suggestion of "Dance of the knights" and
the sample ringtone. I appreciate the effort, I am up in Schefferville
in Northern Quebec and there are no local music stores for listening
to samples or asking advice...
Compared to "Dance of the knights", My mystery piece is less energetic.
To: altohaus-ga, Thanks also for your suggestion of "SAMUEL BARBER'S
"ADAGIO FOR STRINGS"" It sounds promising...If I could be directed to
a sound clip somewhere on the net...I can follow up on a few sound
samples, just can't afford to go through dozens at a time.
To: markj-ga  Re: "The Battle on the Ice:" I listened to the link you
provided and it's not it...again, too "energetic" What I'm looking for
is more mood music for the soldiers who are getting melodramatically
and hopelessly slaughtered in the mud... good grief!

I'd like a clip of that "SAMUEL BARBER'S "ADAGIO FOR STRINGS"

I've made a wav file of me humming the tune, but don't know how to put
it on the web for others to hear for a clue...could break the
mystery...

---

Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 23 Dec 2003 16:44 PST

silvercaribou --

Can you identify the radio station you were listening to when you
heard the Prokofiev (presumably) music that reminded you of the film
music you had heard?  If you can identify the station, can you also
estimate when you heard the music on the station (time of day and/or
date)?

I'm hoping another researcher of commenter will come to your rescue
about how to uploading your file.  I don't know how either.

markj-ga

---

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 23 Dec 2003 17:13 PST

silvercaribou,

Here is a midi adaptation of Barber's "Adagio for Strings." It's a
very small file, so you shouldn't have to wait long to download it and
listen to see whether this may be the melody you're looking for:

http://www.mortalwombat.com/Audio/barber.mid

As mentioned in a comment, the film "Platoon" used this piece to great
effect. It has also been used in "The Elephant Man," "Lorenzo's Oil,"
"El Norte," and in many trailers.

Please let us know if this is the music you seek.

---

Clarification of Question by silvercaribou-ga on 24 Dec 2003 06:04 PST

YEEEEEE-HA! THAT'S IT! "SAMUEL BARBER'S "ADAGIO FOR STRINGS"

http://www.mortalwombat.com/Audio/barber.mid

altohaus-ga, Thanks for the initial suggestion of the piece
pinkfreud-ga, Thanks for the midi to confirm
Thanks to all the others  markj-ga, bclam-ga, juggler-ga for dealing
with my, at times, misleading clues!
not sure how to end this with an official "answer" but "SAMUEL
BARBER'S "ADAGIO FOR STRINGS" is it!

Thanks a bunch, now I just have to find an MP3 of it to download now!

---

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 24 Dec 2003 09:44 PST

silvercaribou,

To end this with an official answer, all you need to do is request
that a Researcher post his or her remarks as an answer. You can choose
which Researcher claims the fee. The Google Answers Researchers who
have assisted you are markj, juggler, and myself. Since bclam and
altohaus are not Google Answers Researchers, their helpful comments
are freebies. ;-)

I'm sure one of us can help you to find an MP3, too. Let us know if
you'd like further assistance.

---

Clarification of Question by silvercaribou-ga on 24 Dec 2003 16:04 PST

I guess the official answer goes to you then pinkfreud-ga with a huge
un-official tip-of-the-hat to altohaus-ga. Thanks to all who
participated!

Please post your remarks as the answer pinkfreud-ga.

P.S. I've found an MP3 to download, It's just going to take about 10
hrs that's all!
Bye!

I'm delighted that we've helped you to identify the music you were
seeking! Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings" has become one of the
best-known pieces of classical music of our time, and it is a personal
favorite of mine. As I mentioned earlier, films that have featured
this piece include "Platoon," "The Elephant Man," "Lorenzo's Oil," and
"El Norte." It was also in the films "Amélie," "S1m0ne," "Kevin &
Perry go Large," and "The Scarlet Letter" (the Demi Moore version.) It
was in the trailer for the film "The Messenger" (which was about Joan
of Arc.) The computer game "Homeworld" uses it. It was played at the
funerals of Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Princess Grace,
and Princess Diana.

Here you'll find an interesting article about "Adagio for Strings":

Barnes & Noble: Biography / Samuel Barber
http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/biography.asp?ctr=6910

If you really like "Adagio for Strings," you might want to consider
purchasing a CD which contains eight different versions of it,
including the beautiful "Agnus Dei" ("Lamb of God,") which is a choral
adaptation. You can listen to clips of five of the arrangements here:

Amazon: Barber's Adagio / Munch, Galway, Boston SO Strings
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000003G8N/103-0434688-0261402?v=glance

Thanks for a challenging question! If anything is unclear, please
request clarification; I'll be glad to offer further assistance before
you rate my answer.

Best wishes,
pinkfreud

altohaus-ga gave the initial suggestion of the piece,   pinkfreud-ga
followed up with an actual clip that confirmed it for me. 3 stars for
confirming altohaus-ga's  unofficial answer.

I have a very strong feeling you have heard and are trying to describe
Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet...the specific piece from that ballet is
called "Dance of the Knights".  This section of his ballet has been
used in MANY films.  Im not going to try to find you a link because of
your dialup issues, but go to your local music store and find a CD of
Romeo and Juliet by Prokofiev and have a test listen to the Dance of
the Knights track.

This quote, and there are other similar quotes online, strengthens my
initial hunch that the music you heard on the radio may be from
Prokofiev's score for Alexander Nevsky, most probably the famous scene
called "The Battle on the Ice:"

"There is a good reason that some film music becomes so famous and in
the case of Alexander Nevsky it's not terribly difficult to know why;
it is very thematic, rousing, thrilling, beautiful and moves through
every kind of emotion an epic tale such as Nevsky's should. Perhaps
the highlight is the extended Battle on the Ice, which has been
imitated on countless occasions, most notably in James Horner's score
to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn."
Soundtrack Express: Alexander Nevsky
http://www.soundtrack-express.com/osts/alexandernevsky.htm


Especially if the films you viewed that reminded you of the "mystery
piece" were action films and the context of the music was a battle or
post-battle scene, this music still strikes me as a good guess. Also,
note agains the upward trajectory of the music that is audible on the
links I provided you in my clarification.

markj-ga

With particular reference to the association of a "muddy battle
scene", an often used melo-dramatic work from the classical literature
in modern film is SAMUEL BARBER'S "ADAGIO FOR STRINGS".  Made popular
by the movie "Saving Private Ryan" several years back, subsequent
movies portraying similar-themed story-lines have leveraged this
success in their marketing strategies using a few bars (no more than
8, to be precise) of an existing Symphony's recording of this piece in
the trailers of upcoming movies.  While many variations of this work
have been recorded since its popularity rise, I strongly suggest
sticking to its original and most beautiful format -- string chamber
orchestra.  The composition is truly a stunning masterpiece.

The main reason im going with Dance of the knights is that the mystery
piece was described as "plodding" which Dance of the KNights is.  Here
is a very cheesy interpretation of the basic tune in ringtone for
(therefore small) see what you think...oh and Barber's Adagio was made
famous in Platoon, not Saving Private Ryan

http://www.customvmail.com/ringtonepreviews/8329.mp3

Man if you'd have said soldiers dying in the mud earlier that would
have been my first guess!!...maybe I missed it (it was the plodding
comment that threw me off as adagio is most definately not plodding). 
But Barber's Adagio is an amazing piece...Ive performed it many many
MANY times.  Im glad you have now been exposed to it.  You should also
take a listen to barber's Concerto for Violin...the second movement of
that brings a tear to my eye its so pretty. Another piece in the same
flowing gorgeous vein is Gorecki's 3rd Symphony...absolutly
breathtaking (it has been used in the movie Fearless with Jeff
Bridges)

Thanks for the challenge and I hope you continue to look for new and
different music to expand your mind.

A little late with my comment, but I have only just come across Google answers.

The 'Adagio for Strings' by Samuel Barber has been recorded by many,
(I have several versions), but there is one that appears to trounce
all others.

Recorded in the early 1960's, with Thomas Schippers conducting the New
York Symphony Orchestra, it is available on Sony Classical ?
Masterworks Heritage ? MHK62837.  ASIN: B0000029V2.

Clips can be found at the following address :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000029V2/qid=1072628895/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8129632-8399914?v=glance&s=classical

I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Regards, bigpete.