Technician installed SBC Yahoo DSL two weeks ago and immediately
"attacked" Outlook Express and my beloved Netscape 4.7. They both
rallied after about a week of trying to get them working again, and
they could RECEIVE email, but not SEND. Then this week t hey gave up
and they are useless for email. Yahoo said I need to upgrade browsers
to work with it. Did so, and both worked for a couple of days and then
stopped. That was OK because Netscape 6 version is awful. Netscape 4.7
worked PERFECTLY. Yahoo's email is annoying, irritating and klunky,
for the bar that show what "percentage" of my mailbox is using, to the
endless unnecessary steps they've added to send or receive. I don't
want a "buddy list" or a "briefcase" or stockmarket quotes, cartoons
and ADS. A bove all, THE ADS that are intrusively prominent
everywhere. I must have the DSL. I would dearly love Netscape 4.7
back. MY QUESTION: Is there a way for me to use Netscape 4.7 and just
keep the DSL part from SBC/Yahoo? Or should I find another DSL
provi der? WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO PROCEED? I have a Mac G4, system
9.2.2 (soon to convert to OSX) and maximum memory. Why should I have
to give up an emailer that worked perfectly for something I actively
hate? ?f

---

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 25 Dec 2003 20:37 PST

susmart-ga:

I definitely feel your frustration coming through, so hopefully I can
help you get back to an enjoyable Internet experience.

First, I am assuming that you were happily using Outlook Express and
Netscape 4.7 on some other ISP prior to switching to SBC Yahoo! DSL
service. So, we know that the problem lies completely in the
configuration changes that were made to accommodate SBC Yahoo! and
their customized browser.

The difficulty in advising you on how do fix this problem through
Google Answers is that it is necessary to ask you try out some things,
and report back on the results. I hope you are willing to work with me
on this to fix things.

First, I am happy to inform you that it is indeed possible to use the
SBC Yahoo! DSL service as simply an on-ramp onto the Internet. To do
so requires bypassing the customized browser that was installed by the
technician. Before we do this, it is necessary to set up your existing
software properly.

Let's start with Outlook Express. If you go to the SBC Yahoo! DSL help site at:

http://help.sbcglobal.net/results.php?all=0&category=10 

you can click on the "How to set up Outlook Express, Outlook,
Netscape, and Eudora" tutorial. Please do so, and follow the
instructions carefully to set up your e-mail account in Outlook
Express. Note that you will need to know your e-mail address and SBC
Yahoo! user account password to do this.

You can go through the same tutorial to set up Netscape 4.7's e-mail
client, if you wish.

Yahoo! is absolutely correct that Netscape 4.7 is not compatible with
their custom content... but since you have no desire whatsoever to use
their custom content, this does not matter to you. So, feel free to
use Netscape 4.7 for web browsing (and e-mail after you have finished
setting it up according to the above tutorial).

Now for the harder part. The SBC Yahoo! custom browser provides a
layer of software between you and the actual Enternet Connection
Manager software that communicates with the DSL modem to set up and
maintain the DSL connection for as long as your PC is on. Part of this
custom software is called the DSL Connection Manager (easily confused
with the Enternet software as a result of the name). It should be
possible to uninstall the SBC Yahoo! software without uninstalling the
Enternet software. However, please note that once the SBC Yahoo!
software has been uninstalled, you will need to manually start the
Enternet software yourself.

One way to avoid this is to use a DSL router instead. With DSL routers
going for under $30 these days even at major retailers like Best Buy,
this is actually an option to seriously consider. The router will
manage the DSL connection for you, offloading the responsibility for
setting up and maintaining the DSL connection from your Mac.

I'll pause at this point in the process to let you experiment with
setting up your e-mail first. Please let me know if this is
successful, before proceeding with uninstalling the SBC Yahoo!
software.

Awaiting your reply,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

---

Clarification of Question by susmart-ga on 26 Dec 2003 11:47 PST

FOR: aht-ga !
_____________________________________

Aha! You picked up on my frustration, hmn? ;)
         I'm at work now- just HAD to check- will try out your
suggestions this evening at home!
        All sounds very promising.
        Ironically, I've always been a strong Yahoo supporter. But I
never dreamed if I actually GAVE them money, they'd innundate me with
ADS!
        I am entirely confident you will be able to talk me through
this. Surely I am not the first to rebel due to shabby treatment by a
(now) large company.
       Will start on your suggestions as soon as I can.
      Thanks for your speedy response.

su
___________________________________
NOTE: This clarification is for AHT-GA!

---

Clarification of Question by susmart-ga on 26 Dec 2003 18:14 PST

FOR: Aht-ga
Got Outlook Express working fine, am confident I can get Netscape
working when I want/need to. Stopped to check out DSL ROUTERS. Like
the idea of a router, but couldn't find one that was Mac friendly or
even compatible. (And they were about $1200, which would be more than
I'd want to spend.) Several of the searched router sites suggested
that Apple's Airport could be configured as a router.

Xarqi-ga commented that upgrading to Mac OSX might solve everything.

Unsure as how to proceed, but still looking for the easier solution.
Technology is not always my friend... SU

---

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 26 Dec 2003 19:50 PST

susmart-ga:

May I ask where you stopped to check out the DSL routers? $1200 is an
astronomical price for this type of equipment, so there is a
possibility that the sales staff may have pointed you toward the wrong
products.

Some online examples of what I mean by "DSL router" are:

D-Link DI-604 4-port Wired Cable/DSL Router (Refurbished) from TigerDirect.com
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=618593&Sku=D700-2059

Microsoft 802.11b & 4-port Router from BestBuy.com
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384562525&skuId=4778547&tab=1&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01029

Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL Router from Apple.com
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72203/wo/Ta5wiEvnbyEV3LNlM8tXKohljtc/2.3.0.5.10

same Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL Router from CircuitCity.com
http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&catoid=-10265&qp=0&bookmark=bookmark_4&oid=73697


All of these are configured through a web-browser interface, meaning
that the fact you have a Mac should not impact the compatibility of
the solution. The entire setup process is quite easy, and only needs
to be done once. The "value" to most consumers of using a DSL router
is that it simplifies the whole process of establishing and
maintaining the DSL connection. DSL routers also provide protection
against Internet-based threats since they effectively replace your
computer as the visible device on the Internet. Unlike your computer,
which may have some vulnerabilities due to the complexity of the
operating system, the typical DSL router is very secure when properly
configured. A router will also allow you to share your Internet
connection between multiple computers and/or Internet-aware devices in
your home. This latter reason is usually why most consumers end up
choosing to use a router; there are either multiple computers needing
to be online, or there is a gaming device like a Sony Playstation 2 or
a Microsoft X-Box with an online gaming option.

Your need is closer to the first reason I mentioned above. The SBC
Yahoo! DSL service uses a technique known as Point to Point Protocol
over Ethernet (PPPoE) to connect you to their network. I won't go into
the details of how PPPoE works (that's a long answer in itself!), but
suffice it to say that Mac OS 9.2 (and most PC operating systems) do
not support PPPoE natively. This means that additional software in the
form of the Enternet Access Manager is necessary to handle this. Once
we uninstall the SBC Yahoo! custom software, you will need to manually
start the Enternet Access Manager software each time you start up your
Mac. However, if you use a DSL router, you can avoid using this
software, and reduce the possibility of there being a software problem
that interferes with your Internet experience.

Before you finalize the decision to get a DSL router like the ones
I've suggested above, though, it will be of interest to you to know
that Mac OS X does have native support for PPPoE. So, your decision to
get a router will be heavily influenced by the amount of time that
will pass before you upgrade to OS X.

For your future reference, SBC Yahoo!'s help site does provide
instructions on configuring OS X to use their service. So, if you do
choose to not use a router, you only need to go to:

http://help.sbcglobal.net/article.php?item=2272

and follow steps 1-8 using the user account information that you
already have in Step 5 instead of the temporary pre-registration info
that is listed in Step 5. Again, this is for OS X only.

Regardless of whether you choose to use a router, or forego a router
and continue to use the Enternet software on OS 9.2 (and eventually
the OS X native PPPoE support), you should be OK now to use your
Internet connection exactly the way YOU want to... and that's the
ultimate purpose of this exercise!

Please think about about whether you wish to invest in a router (don't
forget the value of the second reason I listed above, namely the
built-in firewall capability of the router), and let me know what your
decision. I have posted this as a Question Clarification Request to
give you the time and opportunity to consider the options I've
presented, and to make sure that this solution meets your needs. Once
you have confirmed that your needs have been met, I will post all of
this information as the official Answer to your Question. Naturally,
you will still have the opportunity to ask for additional
clarification even after I have posted it as the Answer, so don't
worry if you change your mind later and, for example, decide to get a
router after all. All of the information will still be here for your
reference, and I will be happy to provide the additional clarification
needed to ensure that the solution is satisfactory.

Looking forward to your reply,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

susmart-ga:



Thank you for the opportunity answer your question about how to regain
control over your SBC Yahoo! DSL service. After review, I thought it
best to post the information from the Question Clarification section
as the Answer, to summarize it in a easier-to-follow method.

---------------------

First, I am happy to inform you that it is indeed possible to use the
SBC Yahoo! DSL service as simply an on-ramp onto the Internet. To do
so requires bypassing the customized browser that was installed by the
technician. Before we do this, it is necessary to set up your existing
software properly.

To set up Outlook Express and Netscape 4.7's e-mail client, please
refer to the SBC Yahoo! DSL help site's tutorial at:

http://help.sbcglobal.net/results.php?all=0&category=10 

(select the "How to set up Outlook Express, Outlook, Netscape, and
Eudora" tutorial). Note that you will need to know your e-mail address
and SBC Yahoo! user account password to complete this configuration.
You will need to go through the tutorial twice; once for Outlook
Express, and once for Netscape 4.7's e-mail client.

---------------------

SBC Yahoo!'s statement regarding Netscape 4.7's compatibility refers
to the ability of Netscape 4.7 to work with their custom content. As
long as you do not care for any of the custom content features (such
as the stock quotes, and the advertisements), then this should not
matter to you. Your Netscape 4.7's Navigator web browser should be
able to function perfectly well with the DSL connection.

---------------------

The "cause" of your frustration is the SBC Yahoo! customized browser
that was installed by the SBC technician (I presume they don't like to
be referred to as SBC Yahoos...). Now that your e-mail client(s) and
browser are able to use the DSL connection and the SBC mail servers,
you should be able to forego the use of SBC Yahoo!'s browser.

Before uninstalling their custom software from your Mac, please note
that their software interface is currently 'hiding' the Enternet
Access Manager software from your view. That is, whenever you start up
your Mac and initiate the SBC Yahoo! DSL connection, the SBC Yahoo!
software is in turn starting up the Enternet Access Manager to
communicate with the DSL modem and establish the PPPoE connection to
SBC's Internet servers.

You should be able to locate the icon/menu entry for the Enternet
Access Manager somewhere on your computer. You can experiment by
starting up the Enternet Access Manager on its own without starting up
the SBC Yahoo! software, to see if you are able to establish a
connection while bypassing the SBC Yahoo! software. Once you have
confirmed that this is possible, you can safely remove (or just not
use) the SBC Yahoo! software.

---------------------

When you upgrade to Mac OS X, you will no longer need to use the
Enternet Access Manager. OS X has native support for the PPPoE
protocol. So, after you upgrade to OS X, you can follow the procedure
found at:

http://help.sbcglobal.net/article.php?item=2272

and follow steps 1-8 using the user account information that you
already have in Step 5 instead of the temporary pre-registration info
that is listed in Step 5. Again, this is for OS X only.

---------------------

Another option to give serious consideration is the option of using a
DSL router. This option will simplify the process of establishing and
maintaining the DSL connection for your current OS 9.2, and will
continue to provide a layer of hardware firewall protection even after
you upgrade to OS X. A DSL router will also allow you to network
additional computers or devices (such as game consoles) to your DSL
connection. Examples of DSL routers that will work for your current
situation include:

D-Link DI-604 4-port Wired Cable/DSL Router (Refurbished) from TigerDirect.com
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=618593&Sku=D700-2059

Microsoft 802.11b & 4-port Router from BestBuy.com
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384562525&skuId=4778547&tab=1&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01029

Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL Router from Apple.com
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72203/wo/Ta5wiEvnbyEV3LNlM8tXKohljtc/2.3.0.5.10

same Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL Router from CircuitCity.com
http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&catoid=-10265&qp=0&bookmark=bookmark_4&oid=73697

Again, these are simply examples; there are at least a hundred
products available in wired and wireless formats that will work,
ranging in price up to several hundred dollars.

All of these are configured through a web-browser interface, meaning
that the fact you have a Mac should not impact the compatibility of
the solution. The entire setup process is quite easy, and only needs
to be done once. To summarize the "value" to most consumers of using a
DSL router:

- it simplifies the whole process of establishing and maintaining the
DSL connection
- DSL routers also provide protection against Internet-based threats
since they effectively replace your computer as the visible device on
the Internet
- it allows you to share your Internet connection between multiple
computers and/or Internet-aware devices in your home, such as a Sony
PlayStation 2 or a Microsoft X-Box.

---------------------

Regardless of whether you choose to use a router, or to continue with
having your Mac connected directly to the DSL modem, you should now be
able to use your SBC Yahoo! DSL connection as YOU see fit, absent of
the extraneous content and ads that are currently detracting from your
Internet experience.

I am happy to have been of assistance to you in the matter. Please let
me know if there is anything else I can help you with, I can provide
any clarification you need through the Answer Clarification function.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

---

Request for Answer Clarification by susmart-ga on 27 Dec 2003 20:29 PST

Aht-ga!

I am happy with your answer and there is no need for you to further
research it. (Although I WOULD like to let you know what do to solve
the problem). As luck would have it, I'm in the middle of
designing/typesetting a book a favor for a friend, and I don't have
the energy to deal with matters like this that require more focused
attention than I have now. But I'm fine for now, just using the
internet parts that I want to. Footnote: Actually I DID try installing
Netscape/Internet Explorer using the Yahoo help, but it didn't work
when I tried it. But I see that persistence can be a virtue!  Thanks
alot for your help! It's so much easier to get a straight story from
someone who  knows all the parts- not just Yahoo's or SBC's or Apple.
Good luck!  PS- I'm going to TRY to "RATE ANSWER" now!

---

Clarification of Answer by aht-ga on 27 Dec 2003 21:00 PST

susmart-ga:

Thank you for the tip! I do hope that this all works out for you after
you have the time to take another look at it. One aspect to look
forward to will be the improved experience after you switch to OS X
and it's native support for PPPoE. As well, you will indeed find that
Safari is a "smoother" web browser for the Mac than Internet Explorer
(and Netscape as well).

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Prompt, professional, thorough and really cut through my somewhat
frustrated and disorganized question to come up with a variety of
solutions withing my expertise to impliment. Sometimes its just safer
and more productive to go to a "ga" instead of  someone at the company
you have a problem with.

Looking a little down the track, since you are moving to OSX your
problems will go away.  Change to the Apple Mail app (if you want
better spam filtering, add POSTARMOR) and to Safari as a web browser
(if you want better spam blocking, add PITHHELMET).

FOR: xarqi-ga. Thanks for your comment. Every bit is helpful.  su