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Subject:
Thermodynamics of vapor-liquid transitions
Category: Science > Chemistry Asked by: sfpaul-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
25 Dec 2003 21:42 PST
Expires: 24 Jan 2004 21:42 PST Question ID: 290327 |
Is is thermodynamically possible to heat a salt-water solution to boiling by injecting steam? In a paper I read, the author claims that given an aqueous solution in which the solute raises the boiling point to 102°C (@ 1 atm), injecting steam to try to boil the solution is impossible because the injected steam condenses at 100°C and is therefore thermodynamically incapable of raising the solution to the 102°C boiling point. I agree that injecting wet steam could heat the solution only to 100°C, because above that the injected steam would become superheated by the hotter solution. The resulting drying action would prevent condensation and the release of latent heat. But if higher temperature superheated steam is injected, wouldn't the steam bubble dissipate heat into the solution? I tried to calculate the heat transferred, using the following thinking: 1. Operating at atmospheric pressure, superheated steam at 130°C is injected. 2. The pressure remains roughly constant, the temperature drops to 100°C and the steam bubble shrinks. 3. Tables of superheated steam show that the specific volume drops from 1.8 to 1.675 m^3/kg and the enthaply drops from 2720 to 2680 kJ/kg. Wouldn't this 40 kJ/kg heat the solution? I realize that this may be a poor way to heat, because without heat from condensation, the heating is small, but is it thermodynamically impossible? FYI, the paper is "Furfural production needs chemical innovation" and appeared in the journal Chemical innovation, April 2000, Vol. 30, No. 4, p, 29. The example he gave was actually a pentose-water solution. I can provide a pdf copy. I'm reasonably familiar with thermodynamics but I'm not a chemist or a chemical engineer. So please keep that in mind. |
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Subject:
Re: Thermodynamics of vapor-liquid transitions
From: xarqi-ga on 25 Dec 2003 22:14 PST |
Maybe I'm missing the point here, but this looks like a no-brainer. Apply the second law of thermodynamics and there you have it - if the steam is hotter that the boiling point of the solution, the solution will eventually boil. Heat must pass to the solution from the steam - it's temperature must rise to boiling point, and beyond. Steam can have any temperature you like - until it becomes plasma I guess. Perhaps the author assumed that steam is always 100 °C - in which case, the solution could not be boiled, but I'd be prepared to bet that steam at 1000 °C would boil a cup of water in a hurry! |
Subject:
Re: Thermodynamics of vapor-liquid transitions
From: sfpaul-ga on 26 Dec 2003 09:19 PST |
Thanks for your comment. I think that your note will help clarify my question. First though, I want to reply to your statement that "Heat must pass to the solution from the steam - it's temperature must rise to boiling point, and beyond," specifically the "beyond" part. The temperature of the solution will never rise above the boiling point (at the specified pressure) as long as any liquid solution remains. I don't believe that the paper's author intended to heat the entire reactor contents to complete dryness. But, I do agree with you that 1,000°C steam will boil the water--just inefficiently. This shown by the comparing heating with condensing steam to your example, and is actually a pretty good case of how high temperature differences do not lead to good heat transfer efficiencies -- thermodynamics can be counterintuitive. The main assumption is that that the heat transfer takes place at a constant pressure. This is fair as I don't believe the author intended to inject high pressure steam into an liquid at one atmosphere. The heat transfer would be very turbulent and not quasi-static: 1. Heating water with steam having no difference in temperature can be quite efficient: heating 100°C saturated liquid water with 100°C dry saturated steam (given enough time for the steam to diffuse into the liquid) releases 2675-425 = 2250 kJ for each kg of steam. Given that it takes 2575 kJ/kg to make the steam from room temperature water in the first place, you're transfering 87% of the input heat. 2. Heating 102°C saltwater with 1000°C superheated steam (your example) at 1 atm releases 4640 - 2675 = 1965 kJ for each kg. As 4540 kJ/kg is used to generate the steam in the first place, the heat transfer efficiency is 43.5% of the input heat. Note that the steam density increases from .17 to .6 kg/m^3 in the process -- about 25% of the heating is generated by compressing the steam bubble. When you consider the low efficiency, heat losses and large diameter piping needed to move low density, 1000°C steam, maybe the author meant "practically impossible" rather than "thermodynamically impossible." So given a limited volume flow rate an a limited amount of fuel to burn, your "in a hurry" is a relative term. That is the essence of my question. It's a shame that we cannot ask him. Karl Zeitsch, a renown expert on furfural production, died on the day after the 9/11 terror attacks (but no direct relation to the plane crashes). |
Subject:
Re: Thermodynamics of vapor-liquid transitions
From: xarqi-ga on 26 Dec 2003 15:05 PST |
Oops - quite right about the "and beyond". As I was writing that I was thinking about heat versus temperature and the energy needed to bring about the phase transition of the liquid. More heat would be transferred, but as you rightly point out, the temperatur would not increase beyond boiling point. Sorry for the goof. I guess, once I saw the basic flaw in the reasoning - that is - that steam could certainly carry and transfer sufficient energy to the liquid to boil it - I got lazy with the details. |
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