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Q: probiotics ( No Answer,   7 Comments )
Question  
Subject: probiotics
Category: Health > Alternative
Asked by: samthe1man-ga
List Price: $9.50
Posted: 29 Dec 2003 14:55 PST
Expires: 01 Jan 2004 17:50 PST
Question ID: 291220
1.Where can I obtain this I wish to acquire it maybe from a biological
supply store and have it prepared by a pharmacist or doctor.This is
intended for crohns disease.
Im looking for a strain of ecoli called saprophytic Escherichia coli strain
(ATCC 202226) or M-17 Escherichia coli strain.I believe they are the
same but maybe they are not.

2.What kind of probiotic therapies are  good for crohns.Any product
cited should be bacterial by nature.

3. for the above strain of bacteria (1.)what temperature can the
bacteria survive at and what temperature will it reproduce on its own.

questions 2 and 3 must be answered.This question should be answered
preferably by an expert knowledgable in bacteria or probiotic
medicine.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: probiotics
From: xarqi-ga on 29 Dec 2003 21:29 PST
 
A quick look at the ATCC catalogue (www.atcc.org) reveals that there
is no 202226.  A google search for this gives just 4 results - a
ridiculuosly low number for a bona fide strain of E. coli.  None of
the E. coli strains that ATCC sells have similar designations.

A search of the Pubmed database of medical literature for 202226
retrieves only one paper from 1977, and that is because 202226 is its
index number.

How sure are you of this information?  Can you cite a source?
Subject: Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 07:39 PST
 
thanks for your help.Here is a link discussing the strain.
http://www.biobalancecorp.com/medi_publ.html
can you explain some of that stuff you said in lamens terms.like a
ridiculously low number bona fide e coli etc.I appreciate your
assistance
Subject: Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 08:15 PST
 
I now understand everything you said no need to clarify.Could it be
discontinued or something?
Subject: Re: probiotics
From: xarqi-ga on 30 Dec 2003 14:37 PST
 
Hi again:

I had a look at the reference you gave, and at the paper it cited. 
Unfortunately, the "Materials" section gives no more information about
ATCC 202226 - normally, the supplier would be identified to allow
independent replication of the experiment.  The inference is that the
supplier was ATCC, but that does not seem possible.  You could perhaps
write to the journal isrvma@isrvma.org and ask for contact information
for the authors and ask them directly.  The paper was published in
2002, so it seems unlikely either that that this strain has been
discontinued, or that it has not yet been added to the ATCC catalogue.

I am sceptical, I'm afraid.  The absence of anything in the mainstream
medical literature is ominous, and I do wonder if ATCC 202226 is a
fabrication, or an internal code intended to prevent experimental
replication, possibly for commercial protection.

On the broader question of the use of probiotics in the amelioration
of the symptoms of Crohn's disease:

May I suggest that you surf over to PubMed at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ and type (or paste):
"Crohn Disease"[MESH] AND probiotics[MESH]
into the Search box and click "Go".

This will retrieve citations for some 30 papers on this topic - most
will have abstracts - some may have links to full text.  This may help
direct your search to potential treatments with more substantial
bodies of evidence to support their efficacy.

In the end, the answer may just be yoghurt!

I hope this helps.

xarqi
Subject: Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 15:27 PST
 
you are most probably correct that its a wrong number used as a trade
protection.This company new york healthcare was just involved in some
sort of scandal.Just one more question...if I had this probiotic
medicine would there be way to send it to a lab so they can give me an
idea of whats inside.Thanks for all your work in the matter how can I
compensate you is there some way I can give you a tip?
Subject: Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 15:39 PST
 
just one more thing I found another paper that might shed more light into this.
Can you make sense of this paragraph?

PROBACTRIX TM is the liquid formula containing live bacteria of E.
coli ATCC 202226. E. coli ATCC 202226 was derived from E. coli M-17 by
selection for variants with superior competition in vivo with Shigella
and Salmonella pathogens as well as improved stability in the liquid
formulation.
 
The entire paper can be found here:

http://www.thebiobalancecorp.com/documents/Osipova%20%20CORRECTED%2099%25%20CO.doc

Thanks again
Subject: Re: probiotics
From: xarqi-ga on 30 Dec 2003 16:49 PST
 
As near as I can tell, M-17 seems to be a strain used in Russia, but
almost nowhere else;
Try this Pubmed search: "E. coli" AND (M17 OR M-17)
Most of the papers are in Russian.

Bacterial strains are sometimes not totally pure, and furthermore,
mutations can occur in culture resulting in the generation of
diversity.  It looks like somebody took some of this M17 and grew it
in competition with some nasties.  The variants of the M17 that
survived best were selected and called 202226.  I saw one reference to
M17 as a "standard strain", but that was in the Russian context.

Ahhhh - here ya go!  http://www.nyhc.com/pressrelease.asp?pid=44

This confirms the Russian connection - interestingly, they give the
strain as 20226, not 202226.  I'd already considered that there might
have been a type and looked up ATCC 20226 - it exists, but it is not
E. coli, it is a yeast.  The source of this article is that BioBalance
place - they don't seem to be able to keep the numbers straight!

That's about as far as I can go - you'd have to dig into the Russian
literature for more - a daunting prospect.

If you HAD some of it, you could get it analysed, but whether this
would get you to an exact strain number is problematical.  I'm not
totally up with the play on the procedures employed, but it is quite
possible that a database of distinguishing genetic markers for
different strains exists, together with an identification procedure. 
When I think of this, I see $$$.

You are welcome to this information if it is of any help - you cannot
pay me or tip me as I am not an "official" Google Answers researcher,
but thanks for the offer.

Maybe someone here will be able to help you further.

xarqi

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