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Subject:
probiotics
Category: Health > Alternative Asked by: samthe1man-ga List Price: $9.50 |
Posted:
29 Dec 2003 14:55 PST
Expires: 01 Jan 2004 17:50 PST Question ID: 291220 |
1.Where can I obtain this I wish to acquire it maybe from a biological supply store and have it prepared by a pharmacist or doctor.This is intended for crohns disease. Im looking for a strain of ecoli called saprophytic Escherichia coli strain (ATCC 202226) or M-17 Escherichia coli strain.I believe they are the same but maybe they are not. 2.What kind of probiotic therapies are good for crohns.Any product cited should be bacterial by nature. 3. for the above strain of bacteria (1.)what temperature can the bacteria survive at and what temperature will it reproduce on its own. questions 2 and 3 must be answered.This question should be answered preferably by an expert knowledgable in bacteria or probiotic medicine. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: probiotics
From: xarqi-ga on 29 Dec 2003 21:29 PST |
A quick look at the ATCC catalogue (www.atcc.org) reveals that there is no 202226. A google search for this gives just 4 results - a ridiculuosly low number for a bona fide strain of E. coli. None of the E. coli strains that ATCC sells have similar designations. A search of the Pubmed database of medical literature for 202226 retrieves only one paper from 1977, and that is because 202226 is its index number. How sure are you of this information? Can you cite a source? |
Subject:
Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 07:39 PST |
thanks for your help.Here is a link discussing the strain. http://www.biobalancecorp.com/medi_publ.html can you explain some of that stuff you said in lamens terms.like a ridiculously low number bona fide e coli etc.I appreciate your assistance |
Subject:
Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 08:15 PST |
I now understand everything you said no need to clarify.Could it be discontinued or something? |
Subject:
Re: probiotics
From: xarqi-ga on 30 Dec 2003 14:37 PST |
Hi again: I had a look at the reference you gave, and at the paper it cited. Unfortunately, the "Materials" section gives no more information about ATCC 202226 - normally, the supplier would be identified to allow independent replication of the experiment. The inference is that the supplier was ATCC, but that does not seem possible. You could perhaps write to the journal isrvma@isrvma.org and ask for contact information for the authors and ask them directly. The paper was published in 2002, so it seems unlikely either that that this strain has been discontinued, or that it has not yet been added to the ATCC catalogue. I am sceptical, I'm afraid. The absence of anything in the mainstream medical literature is ominous, and I do wonder if ATCC 202226 is a fabrication, or an internal code intended to prevent experimental replication, possibly for commercial protection. On the broader question of the use of probiotics in the amelioration of the symptoms of Crohn's disease: May I suggest that you surf over to PubMed at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ and type (or paste): "Crohn Disease"[MESH] AND probiotics[MESH] into the Search box and click "Go". This will retrieve citations for some 30 papers on this topic - most will have abstracts - some may have links to full text. This may help direct your search to potential treatments with more substantial bodies of evidence to support their efficacy. In the end, the answer may just be yoghurt! I hope this helps. xarqi |
Subject:
Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 15:27 PST |
you are most probably correct that its a wrong number used as a trade protection.This company new york healthcare was just involved in some sort of scandal.Just one more question...if I had this probiotic medicine would there be way to send it to a lab so they can give me an idea of whats inside.Thanks for all your work in the matter how can I compensate you is there some way I can give you a tip? |
Subject:
Re: probiotics
From: samthe1man-ga on 30 Dec 2003 15:39 PST |
just one more thing I found another paper that might shed more light into this. Can you make sense of this paragraph? PROBACTRIX TM is the liquid formula containing live bacteria of E. coli ATCC 202226. E. coli ATCC 202226 was derived from E. coli M-17 by selection for variants with superior competition in vivo with Shigella and Salmonella pathogens as well as improved stability in the liquid formulation. The entire paper can be found here: http://www.thebiobalancecorp.com/documents/Osipova%20%20CORRECTED%2099%25%20CO.doc Thanks again |
Subject:
Re: probiotics
From: xarqi-ga on 30 Dec 2003 16:49 PST |
As near as I can tell, M-17 seems to be a strain used in Russia, but almost nowhere else; Try this Pubmed search: "E. coli" AND (M17 OR M-17) Most of the papers are in Russian. Bacterial strains are sometimes not totally pure, and furthermore, mutations can occur in culture resulting in the generation of diversity. It looks like somebody took some of this M17 and grew it in competition with some nasties. The variants of the M17 that survived best were selected and called 202226. I saw one reference to M17 as a "standard strain", but that was in the Russian context. Ahhhh - here ya go! http://www.nyhc.com/pressrelease.asp?pid=44 This confirms the Russian connection - interestingly, they give the strain as 20226, not 202226. I'd already considered that there might have been a type and looked up ATCC 20226 - it exists, but it is not E. coli, it is a yeast. The source of this article is that BioBalance place - they don't seem to be able to keep the numbers straight! That's about as far as I can go - you'd have to dig into the Russian literature for more - a daunting prospect. If you HAD some of it, you could get it analysed, but whether this would get you to an exact strain number is problematical. I'm not totally up with the play on the procedures employed, but it is quite possible that a database of distinguishing genetic markers for different strains exists, together with an identification procedure. When I think of this, I see $$$. You are welcome to this information if it is of any help - you cannot pay me or tip me as I am not an "official" Google Answers researcher, but thanks for the offer. Maybe someone here will be able to help you further. xarqi |
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