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Q: history/geography ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: history/geography
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: quigs-ga
List Price: $40.00
Posted: 02 Jan 2004 13:24 PST
Expires: 01 Feb 2004 13:24 PST
Question ID: 292472
The 1860 Savannah census lists George Giebelhouse, 26, as having been
born in Hoefoeloafos. Where is this?

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 02 Jan 2004 13:57 PST
Hello,

I found an 1880 census listing for George Giebelhouse which lists his
birthplace as Germany.  There is also a record for his marriage in
1859.

I ran a check on all place names in Germany beginning with the letters
"Ho...", but found nothing even vaguely similar to Hoefoeloafos.  Are
you certain of the spelling, especially the first letter?

Clarification of Question by quigs-ga on 02 Jan 2004 16:58 PST
I have no more information. The place name was copied from a census I
found in the Savannah library. Possibly written wrongly. I thought
this place might be in the general area of Osterholtz and Bremen, but
have no proof.

Request for Question Clarification by scriptor-ga on 02 Jan 2004 17:37 PST
Dear quigs,

I am German, and I can say this for sure: "Hoefoeloafos" does not make
any sense. I suspect that a census clerk either misinterpreted an
unfamiliar kind of handwriting, or that he was told what to write and
thus wrote the name like it sounded in his ears. In both cases, there
might be a small chance of reverse "decoding".
I will do additional research in offline sorces and in a library on
Monday. Please be patient.

Best regard,
Scriptor
Answer  
Subject: Re: history/geography
Answered By: scriptor-ga on 03 Jan 2004 10:48 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear quigs,

The mysterious place called "Hoefoeloafos" puzzled me so much that I
decided to do additional research today instead of Monday. I consulted
offline sources and here is what I think must be the answer:

"Hoefoeloafos" is actually "Hohenlohe".

These two words do not look very similar at first sight. One needs to
know about German script to understand what (most likely) happened.
From the 18th century, two kinds of script were used for handwriting
in Germany: "Latin" script, which is rather similar what we use today;
and "German" script, which looks quite unfamiliar for modern eyes,
even in Germany. This kind of script looked very pointed and angular
because it had developed from using simple nibs that could not easily
draw curvatures. People from lower classes, provided they could write,
usually learned to use this kind of script only since they could not
afford more sophisticated nibs necessary for the rounded Latin script.
One of the most problematic features of old German script is the fact
that it had three letters one could easily confuse because they looked
very similar: The "f", the "long s" (which was used much like the
"long s" in old English), and the "h". Also, a couple of other letters
did not even vaguely resemble their counterparts in Latin or English
handwriting.

I assume that George Giebelhouse, who was according to the 1880 Census
born in Germany, learned how to write using German script. That means,
that also in his later life, his handwriting would always stay stamped
by it. When he filled the Census form in 1860, he entered "Hohenlohe"
as place of origin.

In German script, "Hohenlohe" would have looked approximately like this:
http://home.foni.net/~scrippor/h1.jpg

He would certainly not have used "Germany". There was no country
called Germany at the time of George Giebelhouse's birth in 1834.
People referred to themselves as Prussians, Bavarians, Hessians, etc.
It is also possible that Giebelhouse did not write "Hohenlohe", but
"Hohenloher" - like in "I am an American". In that case, the word
would have looked like this:
http://home.foni.net/~scrippor/h2.jpg

Please note that these two images have been written using a
standardized form of German script (so-called Sütterlin) that has been
developed much later, in 1911. But it is based on the older forms.
Also, you must keep in mind that when written by an actual person with
a nib on cheap paper, it would look much more "untidy". You can see
this on the left side of a Bavarian document from 1846:
http://www.fontworld.net/gif/suetter_doc.gif
(Source: Anton's Font World - Sütterlin)

Now George Giebelhouse has filled the Census form and returned it.
Later, a clerk has to transfer the contents of the forms into Census
tables. When he comes to the form of George Giebelhouse's household,
he sees this strange word, most likely even more unrecognisable
through careless handwriting: http://home.foni.net/~scrippor/h2.jpg
The clerk copies the place name as he believes it must read. He does
not know about the difference between "h" and "f", and he does not
care much for whether the word makes any sense. After all, he has
hundreds of datasets to transfer, and surely many of them are
puzzling. And so, "Hohenloher" became "Hoefoeloafos".
This is the only logical solution I and the persons I consulted could
imagine for this complex problem.

Now, what is Hohenlohe? It is not a town, but a region in Germany,
about 80 kilometers (50 miles) west of Nürnberg (Nuremberg), 180 km
(112 miles) north-west of München (Munich). A independent 
principality until 1806, it was annexed by the Grand-Duchy of
Württemberg that year. Today, Hohenlohe is the name of a Landkreis
(county) on the territory of the former principality. Technically
speaking, George Giebelhouse was born a subject of Württemberg in
1834. But I found examples that even decades after Hohenlohe had
become part of Württemberg, people still used the former
principality's name only for describing their place of origin, without
even mentioning Württemberg. This is no surprise: The deposed princely
family of Hohenlohe had been popular with their subjects, so in their
eyes the sovereigns of Württemberg remained strangers for quite a long
time.

It is not easy to say whether there are still any documents mentioning
the Giebelhaus / Giebelhouse family in the county archives of
Hohenlohe. Many archived records from the past centuries have been
lost or destroyed during World War II. But you might nevertheless want
to contact the administration of the county of Hohenlohe for
instructions of what archives to contact for further research:

Landratsamt Hohenlohekreis
Auskunftsstelle
Allee 16/17
74653 Künzelsau
Germany
--
Phone (information desk): +49(0)7940-18-0
Fax: +49(0)7940-18-336
E-Mail: Info@Hohenlohekreis.de
Website: http://www.hohenlohekreis.de/



Additional sources used:

RootsWeb WorldConnect Genealogy Database
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi

FamilySearch Genealogy Database
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

Sütterlinschrift lesen, by Peter Dörling (in German)
http://www.peter-doerling.de/Lese/Sutterlin0.htm

Anton's Font World: Sütterlin (in German)
http://www.fontworld.net/_de/suetterlin.html

Stimme.de: 750 Jahre Öhringen - "Wir werden die Württemberger aus
unserem Lande jagen" (in German)
http://newsregional.stimme.de/750-jahre-oehringen/geschichte/0,1726336351,0,0,0,0.html

Stimme.de: 750 Jahre Öhringen - Am Ende war er ein armer Mann (in German)
http://newsregional.stimme.de/750-jahre-oehringen/geschichte/0,467981299,0,0,0,0.html

Touristikgemeinschaft Hohenlohe
http://www.hohenlohe.de/


Search terms used:
hohenlohe
://www.google.de/search?q=hohenlohe&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=de&meta=
hohenlohe fürstentum 1806 württemberg
://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&q=hohenlohe+f%C3%BCrstentum+1806+w%C3%BCrttemberg&meta=
"landkreis hohenlohe"
://www.google.de/search?q=%22landkreis+hohenlohe%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=de&meta=
sütterlin erfunden " Ludwig Sütterlin"
://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&q=s%C3%BCtterlin+erfunden+%22+Ludwig+S%C3%BCtterlin%22&btnG=Google+Suche&meta=


I hope that what I found out will prove useful for you.
Very best regards,
Scriptor
quigs-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
amazing analysis!

Comments  
Subject: Re: history/geography
From: fp-ga on 03 Jan 2004 01:12 PST
 
You can use the following webpage to find a place name in Germany:
http://gov.genealogy.net/index.jsp

Enter the first few letters of the place you are looking for (click on
"Beginn des Namen"). Assuming that "Hoefoeloafos" was written "Höv..."
or "Höf..." there is indeed one result in the vicinity of Osterholz:
Höftdeich.
http://gov.genealogy.net/ort.jsp?id=58823

Reminder: When trying the locality search you should use the letter
"ö" (i.e. Umlaut), not "oe"!

Is Höftdeich the place your are looking for? Well, at least both place
names are more or less of the same wordlength.

Some additional information concerning Höftdeich:
It was part of "St. Jürgen" (i.e. "Sankt Jürgen") when St. Jürgen
became part of Lilienthal in 1974:
http://www.lilienthal.de/wissenswertes/Chronik/ortsgeschichte.html

A map showing Höftdeich ("Suchbegriffe eingeben": enter "höftdeich")
http://www.staedte-verlag.de/stadtplaene/plan/index.php4?plz=28865

"Giebelhouse" would be "Giebelhaus" in German.
Subject: Re: history/geography
From: fp-ga on 03 Jan 2004 12:15 PST
 
If "Hohenlohe", as proposed by Scriptor, should prove to be the name
you are looking for, then these maps may interest you:

Germany in 1789 with "independent" Hohenlohe:
http://us.share.geocities.com/vrozn/s1789.jpg
http://us.share.geocities.com/vrozn/sger1789.jpg

Germany in 1820 (after Napoleon) with Hohenlohe as part of Württemberg:
http://www.geocities.com/vroznmap/p820d_a3_mb.gif
Subject: Re: history/geography
From: fp-ga on 03 Jan 2004 12:48 PST
 
Should the links mentioned in my previous comment only lead to a
mesasge stating "This page is not available", then please copy and
paste the complete URL into the address line of your browser. Sorry,
...
Subject: Re: history/geography
From: pafalafa-ga on 03 Jan 2004 13:52 PST
 
Very nice work, Scriptor...I'm convinced!

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