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Subject:
Mutli-parameter border search
Category: Science > Math Asked by: gooseman-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
03 Jan 2004 17:28 PST
Expires: 02 Feb 2004 17:28 PST Question ID: 292876 |
I have a simulation that takes in quite a few parameters (say around 10). The data output can be simplified to just one point on a two-dimensional chart. All I am interested in is the border of that plot (i.e. the outlying points), not the points in the middle. The relationship between the input parameters and the output points is not straightforward, though not random. What is the best way to "move" around the border of the plot when running the simulation (This will save much simulation time, as I'd avoid running most simulations that generate points around the center of the plot)? Methods, pros and cons of each and (links to) easily implementable solutions required. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Mutli-parameter border search
From: mathtalk-ga on 03 Jan 2004 18:35 PST |
There is no general answer to such a problem. Even if the mapping from R^10 (if we assume 10 real parameters) to R^2 is continuous, it can be "chaotic", which means that in practice one cannot predict what input parameters provide an output near the boundary, rather than the interior, of the target region. If the mapping were well understood, then perhaps analysis of it would lead to the sort of economy of evaluations that you seek. However from the use of "simulation" and the lack of any specific description of the computation, I am lead to suspect that the mapping would be very difficult (perhaps impossible) to analyze in these terms. Note that even if you identified _some_ inputs that produce boundary points, there is no clear justification for assuming that these are representative of all the boundary points which might be produced. regards, mathtalk-ga |
Subject:
Re: Mutli-parameter border search
From: mathtalk-ga on 06 Jan 2004 18:32 PST |
Hi, gooseman-ga: If I were in your situation, I'd try some numerical experiments with techniques borrowed from root-finding and optimization. My first trials would probably be with a Nelder-Mead type of approach: evaluate the function at 11 affine independent points in your parameter space, creating the vertices of the ten-dimensional equivalent of a tetrahedron in 3-D. Pick the vertex whose output is farthest from the boundary (in 2-D output space) and "reflect" that vertex through the opposing "face" (of the 10-plex) to get the next trial input. Of course you may find that these 10-plexes are constantly bumping into boundaries in your input parameter space, and perhaps for that reason or others having to do with the mapping from 10 dimensions into 2 that the sequence of points bogs down into cycles or otherwise degenerates without mapping out much of the output boundary. On the other hand it might provide a more efficient sampling of the desired boundary regions than what you are doing now, even if you are forced to "restart" the process many times before obtaining an adequate sampling. Once I had a pretty good sampling of the outlying points, I might try to fill in the regions (in 2-D) between them by what are called continuation or homotopy methods. In other words, if input A and input B give relatively close outputs near the (presumed) boundary, then one can try to "morph" the inputs from A to B to obtain a connecting sequence between their outputs. It really begs the question of how one knows when an output is close to the "boundary" of course. If you knew what the boundary was, you'd presumably not need to map it! So initially you'd have to use a proxy criterion which instead of minimizing distance to "the boundary" would maximize the distance away from some interior point. With some auspicious choices of initial point you may be able to "drive" the iterations out to the boundary in a random set of directions rather expeditiously. regards, mathtalk-ga |
Subject:
Re: Mutli-parameter border search
From: gooseman-ga on 07 Jan 2004 18:20 PST |
Thanks for the info! Do you think Nelder-Mead will work well for a 2d boundary which is almost circular (or blob shaped) on the X Y plain? |
Subject:
Re: Mutli-parameter border search
From: mathtalk-ga on 08 Jan 2004 05:41 PST |
It will certainly make things a bit easier if the output region is "star shaped", ie. every point in the region is connected by a line segment to some fixed "central" point (with the line segment entirely in the output region). Then you can set as the "goal" for any particular iteration to move away from that point (the central point itself might have to be estimated, e.g. by an initial run of "scattered" inputs). But I fear the critical element here is going to be the nature of your input to output mapping. Obviously in going from 10 dimensions down to 2 there's going to be a lot of "collapsing" and many-to-one mappings. Picking which vertex in input space falls "farthest" from the output boundary is likely to become a source of difficulty. The 10-plex might map down (assuming a small diameter and a differentiable mapping) to something resembling a nonagon (11-sided polygon), but in most cases some vertexes will probably map "inside" the convex hull of only four or five "exterior" points. It's a good starting point for experiments, I think. You may find that the iterations begin to "cycle" without much progress toward the boundary, and then it's a judgement call whether the approach merits tinkering with the initial choice of inputs or with some perturbations in the iterated vertices to try and squeeze out additional progress. regards, mathtalk-ga |
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