![]() |
|
![]() | ||
|
Subject:
Japanese dictionary lookup
Category: Relationships and Society > Cultures Asked by: apteryx-ga List Price: $3.03 |
Posted:
05 Jan 2004 20:56 PST
Expires: 08 Jan 2004 18:52 PST Question ID: 293538 |
I'd like a word looked up in a Japanese dictionary. I don't care what the Japanese translation is. What I want to know is, when you find it in the Japanese dictionary, what other words are grouped with it? I'd like to know what those words are, in English. Explanation: I used to work with a woman who, from time to time, for work reasons, looked things up for me in the dictionary she called "the green goddess." Once I asked her how the words were arranged, and she said it was by the number of strokes in the Kanji characters. That system has the interesting effect of grouping related words and concepts together; for example, along with "eye" you might find vision- and sight- and seeing-related words and also expressions such as "eyesore" and vision-based figures of speech. I thought this was fascinating--sort of like the concept categories in Roget's original (Kant-based) thesaurus structure. So what I want to know is, using the Japanese dictionary entry as a central organizing point, what related concepts are gathered around this word? I want the English words for them. An online translator is probably not the right resource, because, again, I am not interested in the Japanese words--just a list of the English words for what is found in the neighborhood of the Kanji character for this word in a Japanese dictionary. The word is "being," in the sense of "human being." I'm thinking this is going to be a straight lookup and listing for someone who reads both Japanese and English and so it won't take much time or searching. Thank you, Apteryx |
![]() | ||
|
There is no answer at this time. |
![]() | ||
|
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: aht-ga on 06 Jan 2004 09:54 PST |
Most Kanji characters have retained their original Chinese meanings, so you will find similar results in a Chinese dictionary as well. For reference, the Kanji characters can be looked up at: Jim Breen's WWWJDIC Server http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1C The character you are interested is: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?3323_%B4%D6 You can then go to the Chinese dictionary at: http://zhongwen.com/ and in particular look at this character: http://zhongwen.com/d/182/x161.htm If you look at the section in the bottom frame, you will see the other characters with similar genealogy/strokes. In a nutshell, the character you are interested in is built from the character for sun/sunlight, coming through the character for doorway. Clicking through the other characters in the tree in the bottom frame on the Zhongwen site, you will see words that also involve the same basic genealogy. Regards, aht-ga Google Answers Researcher |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: aht-ga on 06 Jan 2004 10:05 PST |
Incidentally, there are a lot of characters with similar genealogy (ie. building off of the character for doorway), which is why I thought I'd give you the joy of exploring the interactive results at Zhongwen.com (albeit in Chinese as opposed to specifically Japanese) instead of simply listing them out here. Regards, aht-ga Google Answers Researcher |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: aht-ga on 06 Jan 2004 10:12 PST |
detailed kanji lookup instructions: 1. Go to http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1C 2. Select Keyword, enter English word in keyword text box, click Begin Search 3. Select phrase/character from results, select "Examine the kanji...", click Continue 4. Select character of interest, select "Link to Kanji information...", click Continue 5. Select the Zhongwen dictionary to go directly to that character at http://zhongwen.com/ |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: apteryx-ga on 06 Jan 2004 20:02 PST |
Very interesting, aht! (May I call you AHT? or Aht?) And very helpful, as a start. Thank you. I followed your instructions in the third message, but when I got to step 3, I didn't know which character to select. None of those under "being" lists "human being" as the sense of it. And it's just the word "being" I'm after here, not a synonym for "person." It would also be the same word or concept as in the expression "sentient being." The word "being" gives me a "not found" result in the Zhongwen dictionary. Can you guide me a little further? Gassho, Apteryx |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: aht-ga on 06 Jan 2004 21:59 PST |
The character I referred you to does not actually literally mean 'being', in the same sense as 'human being'. Such a noun doesn't really exist in Chinese or Japanese, to the best of my knowledge (my mother tongue is Chinese, and have taken some Japanese courses for basic conversation only). The character is more a modifier of the first character (which means person), to refer to the essence of the person. That's about the closest one can get to the same level of word. It's interesting that the WWWJDIC Server displays that phrase for human being. That's the 'formal' Mandarin phrase; in my native Cantonese, the closest word would be simply 'person' (the two-stroke character that looks like a person walking). If you came across something and could identify it, you'd call it by it's actual name. If you couldn't identify it, you'd refer to it as "it / thing" until you could identify it! Now you understand why I posted this as a comment instead of even attempting it as an answer. Actually, this brings up an interesting difference between these Oriental languages, and English (and, I suppose also any other European languages of the same genealogy). In my own personal observation, there are a lot less abstract words in the Oriental languages than in English. So, abstract words tend to be represented by complex phrases that suggest a similar meaning. I like, for example, the literal interpretation of the characters that make up "philosophy" as provided by zhongwen.com: "Mouth that breaks fallacies , hands reaching down through covered mind to teach". Perhaps there is another way to get at what you are looking for? Am I interpreting this correctly in thinking that you are interested in what concepts are related to the concept of "being"? aht-ga |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: vorfeed-ga on 07 Jan 2004 14:15 PST |
I agree with aht_ga. In my experience as a student of the language, Japanese doesn't really have a noun like the English "being". The character that aht_ga gave you is usually translated as "being" when it appears as part of "ningen", "human being", but it doesn't really mean "being" in and of itself. This said, I also agree with aht_ga that the kanji for "person" may be closer in concept to what you're looking for. For instance, in Japanese an alien is "uchuujin", "space person", and one word for an android or cyborg is "jinzouningen", "artificial human". Both compounds contain the "person" kanji, even though they refer to non-human beings. Perhaps you could find better results if you concentrated on kanji compounds that contain the character for "person". If you like, I can list the English equivalents of these from my kanji dictionary. I don't think that this would constitute a proper answer to your question, but it may help, so I'll be happy to list them as a comment. Please comment on whether or not you'd be interested in seeing these. |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: apteryx-ga on 07 Jan 2004 20:42 PST |
Thank you, aht, and you, too, vorfeed, for your good attempts to help. This is amounting to much more of a quest than I expected, and so if the question does get answered, I will raise the fee. However, I truly meant what I said when I stated that I am not looking for synonyms for "person." What I am interested in here is the fact that English does not apparently have its own noun for this concept that we mean by "being" and instead must use the present participle of a verb. But I don't want to discuss those ideas here; I just want the words as raw material. I have already gathered up every thesaurus entry I can find to help me look at all the dimensions of the word, and I was thinking of the structure of a Japanese dictionary as a kind of additional thesaurus (even if not so intended) that might show me other facets of the concept, just as the "eye"-related words did long ago. All I am after here is whatever Japanese uses for a noun or adjective form of its verb "to be," if there is such a form, and not specifically anything about a "person" (which I had expected would be a different word). I know enough about languages, including a smattering of Japanese, not to expect to find exact equivalents, especially not for idiomatic expressions; but I figured that whatever there was would shed some kind of light. I said "in the sense of 'human being'" to distinguish the word from such uses as "Being a parent, I am concerned about teenage drug abuse" and "We're arriving late, the reason being that we have a prior appointment" and "You are being paged." What I meant was that I am talking about the gerund and not the verb in the continuing present or the adjectival use of the present participle. If there's just no way we are going to come close, then I will consider this an unanswerable question and withdraw it, with thanks for all your helpful remarks. Apteryx |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: aht-ga on 07 Jan 2004 21:30 PST |
I've checked with several other native speakers of Chinese, including one who is fluent in many different dialects, and they all concurred: there is no word in the Chinese language (and therefore highly likely no word in the Japanese language) that approaches the same meaning as "being" used in this context. The Oriental languages do tend to be pretty practical languages. Like I said, if you can see it, it'll have a specific name; if you can't figure out what 'it' is, you just keep referring to it as 'it'. There is no special word used to refer to an 'it' that also happens to have 'the spark of life' (my personal definition of 'being'). Just out of interest, and only if you can share this knowledge... which languages DO have such a word? Regards, aht-ga |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: pinkfreud-ga on 07 Jan 2004 21:37 PST |
"Being" in English has not always implied "living creature": "The word 'being' has existed in English for many centuries in the sense of 'existence'. It is recorded from 1628 in the sense of 'thing which exists' and from 1751 in the sense of 'human being'. In these later senses, the word is quite possibly a calque on medieval Latin <entitas> 'being, entity, thing which exists', which is built upon classical Latin <ens> 'being' (participle)." http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-most-recent/msg10038.html |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: apteryx-ga on 08 Jan 2004 17:16 PST |
I'm grateful, as always, for your added knowledge and insight, Pink. In this instance, you are precisely right: I am *not* looking for just the "living thing" idea. I am afraid I introduced confusion by specifying the gerund by example rather than by label. I am interested in the more general notion of a thing that has existence. And your pointer to the Latin does assist me in my examination. The fact that the origin in Latin is or may be a present participle too is even more interesting. Thank you, Apteryx P.S. to aht: I have not made a study of this question across languages, so I don't know the answer to your question. However, that's where I'm going next. |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: pinkfreud-ga on 08 Jan 2004 17:44 PST |
Perhaps, in English, the word "thing" (which, as sometimes used, can imply material existence, as contrasted with the word "concept") or the word "entity" approaches your meaning, Apteryx. To me, "being" implies life and/or sentience. For instance, I would not describe my beloved old Volkswagen as a "being" unless I meant to imply that it has personality (which it does). Unfortunately, I know very little about Asian languages, so I can't help with the Japanese and Chinese. |
Subject:
Re: Japanese dictionary lookup
From: apteryx-ga on 08 Jan 2004 18:52 PST |
I'm sorry for my failure to communicate my question. The word I am interested in IS "being"--the word itself, as is, as used, and specifically as used as a gerund. I am not looking for anything to use in its place and I am not looking for translations of it. I am looking for its depths and dimensions. The Japanese question was one way of coming at it. This is just the kind of thing I like to explore out of my own curiosity and interest. I have never really tried to justify or even explain it to anyone before. Thanks for all comments. I'll close the question now. Apteryx |
If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you. |
Search Google Answers for |
Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy |