I have a question about hybrid cars.  A friend recently told me that
the electricity used to charge the battery for an hybrid car was worse
for the environment than the gas exhaust from a conventional car. Is
there any truth to a statement like this? What is the difference
between an electric car and a hybrid car and does this statement about
it being worse than a conventional car apply to either or both.  I
would like to look into buying and environmentally friendly car, but
if the impact really isn't that great, I'd rather make my contribution
to helping our enviroment in other ways.  Any thoughts?

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Request for Question Clarification by scriptor-ga on 06 Jan 2004 13:34 PST

Dear wfm68,

No answer, only some logic:
Has your friend considered that the exhaust of a conventional car with
a gas-driven engine ineluctably contains contaminative substances,
while the electricity you would use to charge the batteries of an
electric car could either derive from coal power plants (very dirty)
or atomic plants (extremely dangerous), but also from hydropower
plants, wind energy facilities, for example?
In case the electric energy comes from coal or atomic plants, your
friend is right. But he should consider that at least where I live a
fair amount of electricity comes from exhaust-free, environmentally
friendly power plants. And if the energy for chargin the car's
batteries was produced without doing any harm to the environment, your
friend's arguments suddenly look very, very weak...

Best regards,
Scriptor

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Clarification of Question by wfm68-ga on 06 Jan 2004 14:32 PST

I guess I am just interested in how to evaluate whether or not an
electric or hybrid car would be beneficial to the environment.  From
your response it sounds like there is no real clear answer and it is
possible that they are not beneficial. I have no idea where the
electicity comes from in my area (clean or dirty plants). I live in
Palo Alto, CA...is there an easy way to find out where the pawer comes
from.

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Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 06 Jan 2004 14:39 PST

wfm68-ga:

To accompany my comment below, you may find the following information of interest:

Electric versus conventional vehicles: Social Costs and Benefits in France
http://www-cenerg.ensmp.fr/francais/themes/impact/pdf/ElecVehicle(Funk&Rabl1999).pdf
- a 1999 engineering study of the overall costs and implications

Hybrid Vehicles
http://www.epa.gov/air/caaac/mstrs/ford.pdf
- of particular interest is slide 2 comparing hybrid to conventional

Electric Vehicle Technology
http://www.fisherelectric.com/f_electric_vehicle_tech.htm

Hybrid Myth vs. Fact
http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/EVinfo/hybrids.html

and, more pro-electric vehicle info than you can ever read:
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=complement&page=library

May I ask what you are seeking as an answer to your question? Are you
looking for hard evidence that your use of a hybrid would be better on
the environment than if you were to choose a conventionally-powered
vehicle instead? If so, the information I have provided above should
suffice. If you are looking for something else, please let me know and
I will see if it is possible to Answer.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

wfm68-ga:

Perhaps your friend meant electric-only cars, not hybrid cars. By
definition, a hybrid car is one that has both an internal combustion
engine and an electric motor/generator. In some models, the engine is
used only to charge the onboard batteries, the motor does all of the
actual driving of the drive wheels. In others, through a complex
transmission, either or both of the engine and electric motor can
drive the wheels. In any case, the electricity stored in the batteries
of a hybrid car is derived from either the engine driving a generator,
or from the electric motor/generator recovering energy from the
momentum of the car through regenerative braking. This electricity is
always as 'clean' as, if not cleaner than, the energy conversion in a
purely gas-driven car.

A purely electric car, on the other hand, has to receive it's electric
charge from somewhere. Even if it recovers some energy from
regenerative braking, losses through inefficiency mean that eventually
the batteries will run dry and need to be recharged. This power
currently comes from the power grid, and that's where the pundits
claim that the electricity in a electric car does more harm to the
environment than a car with an internal combustion engine. They base
their statement on the comparative pollution from the worst case
scenario, a 1950's era coal-fired power plant, to the pollution coming
from the tailpipes of most modern cars. By extension, they will also
argue about the environmental cost/impact of hydro-electric dams and
nuclear power plants.

When cleaner means of mass-producing electricity become common-place,
then electric cars will be more practical. However, for now, hybrid
cars represent the best compromise of clean emissions and reduced
environmental impact.

My two cents,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Hello wfm68-ga,

What an interesting issue to chime in. I can?t provide you with an
answer, but someone else?s opinion that I believe is worth thinking
about. The man is a physicist, and a person very actively concerned
about environment. He actually lives in a very natural way, in the
countryside among the hills of Córdoba, Argentina. He and his family
consume very little electricity, which is produced by their own
windmill. I once visited him and, very impressed, went on praising his
device and wind energy in general. To my surprise, he confessed to me
his skepticism about the cleanness of electricity whatever the source
it was. According to him, the problem always remains the way to
accumulate electric energy, which depends on highly polluting
chemicals. I really don?t know how authoritative this person?s
knowledge is, but it kept me thinking. After all, they once thought
that atomic energy was clean, didn?t they? I don?t know how likely it
is for any researcher to find conclusive supporting information in one
sense or the other, but your friend might be not so much wrong. There
seems to be no doubt that electrical energy produced by wind, water or
sunlight is much cleaner than produced by coal or atomic plants: the
two latter add to the accumulation problem the dirt of generating the
energy itself. Now, can the pollution produced by gas emissions from a
conventional car be compared to the pollution produce by a hybrid car
battery?s chemicals? That comparison, if possible, would answer?I
believe?your question.

Best regards,

Guillermo

Hi!!

I am not sure if this enough to you as ana answer but...

See the following documents from EPRI website, the Electric Power
Research Institute at 3412 Hillview Avenue, Palo Alto, California
94304 USA:

·Hybrid Electric Vehicles Significantly Reduce Emissions and Fuel
Consumption Compared to Conventional Vehicles, Study Says:
http://www.epri.com/corporate/discover_epri/news/2002releases/121102_hev.html

·Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles Offer the Best of Both Worlds, Says
EPRI Consumer and Engineering Study:
http://www.epri.com/corporate/discover_epri/news/2001releases/010905_hybrid.html

Note: I suggest you to download report TR 1000349 from the following
link by right click and "Save link as" or Save destiny as" feature. It
weight about 9Mb and it is a 264 pages document:
http://www.epri.com/corporate/discover_epri/news/2001releases/010905_report1000349.pdf

·Comparing the Benefits and Impacts of Hybrid Electric Vehicle Options
for Compact Sedan and Sport Utility Vehicles:
http://www.tcnj.edu/~tebbe/thermo/epri-hybrid.pdf

·The Public Hybrid Electric Vehicule:
http://www.e2i.org/docs/Plug-in_Hybrid.pdf


You will find the EPRI's News Releases page very useful and informative:
http://www.epri.com/corporate/discover_epri/news/2003releases/index_2003.html

And the same is for the Press Room page:
http://www.epri.com/corporate/discover_epri/news/

About EPRI:
EPRI is a non-profit energy research consortium for the benefit of
utility members, their customers, and society. Its mission is to
provide science and technology-based solutions of indispensable value
to our global energy customers by managing a far-reaching program of
scientific research, technology development, and product
implementation.

I hope this helps, and if you accapt this as a proper answer, let me
know and I will post it in the answer box in order to claim the prize.

Regards.
livioflores-ga