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Q: English to Latin translations needed of short offensive athletic phrases ( Answered 2 out of 5 stars,   5 Comments )
Question  
Subject: English to Latin translations needed of short offensive athletic phrases
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Books and Literature
Asked by: kpierce-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 08 Jan 2004 12:21 PST
Expires: 07 Feb 2004 12:21 PST
Question ID: 294476
This is for lettering around the border of a picture frame for a
friend, a big U.S.C. football fan.

I need the following translated to Latin: 
(where "F___" = a word that rhymes with "Duck")

F___ the Golden Bears
F___ the Beavers
F___ the Bruins
F___ the Cardinal
F___ the Cougars
F___ the Huskies
F___ the Ducks
F___ the Sun Devils
F___ the Irish
F___ the Wildcats
F___ the Hokies (alternates - F___ the Turkeys / Stuff the Turkeys)
F___ the Rams
F___ the Rainbow Wahine (alternate - F___ the Rainbows)
F___ the Tigers
Fight On!

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 08 Jan 2004 13:50 PST
I suggest that you consider repricing your question, or reducing its
scope considerably. At your current price, a Researcher who prepares
your answer will receive $1.50 for his or her labors. While there are
several Latin scholars on the Google Answers team, I sincerely doubt
that any of them will be interested in undertaking to translate
fourteen phrases from Latin for a dollar fifty.

Clarification of Question by kpierce-ga on 09 Jan 2004 08:52 PST
While it's true that I can "futuite" this and "futuite" that, I would
still have to determine the accusative (I think) of these various and
sundry school mascots, and in one case, a color (F___ the Cardinal)

2 semesters of high school Latin... out the window.   

My (memory) loss can become your gain.
The price is now $10
Answer  
Subject: Re: English to Latin translations needed of short offensive athletic phrases
Answered By: hlabadie-ga on 09 Jan 2004 14:58 PST
Rated:2 out of 5 stars
 
Golden Bears - ursos aureos
the Beavers - castores
the Bruins - ursos (common brown bear)
the Cardinal<s> - cardinales
the Cougars - leones <montium>
the Huskies - robustos
the Ducks - anates
the Sun Devils - daemones/diabolos solis
the Irish - hibernicos
the Wildcats - feles <feroces>
the Hokies (alternates - F___ the Turkeys / Stuff the Turkeys) -
helluones (gobblers)
the Rams - arietes
the Rainbow Wahine (alternate - F___ the Rainbows) - bellatores arcus
                                                   - bellatrices arcus
(female warriors) <feminas>
the Tigers - tigres
Fight On! - pugnate

Perseus
Search for dictionary headwords
Charlton T. Lewis, Charles Short, A Latin Dictionary
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/resolveform?lang=la

ursus, ursi
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2349926

aureus, a, um
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%234548

castor, castoris
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/enggreek?lang=la&lookup=beaver&type=begin&options=Sort+Results+Alphabetically&.submit=Do+Search

cardinalis, cardinalis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%236777

leo, leonis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2326266

mons, montis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2329605

robustus, a, um
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2341828

anas, anatis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/enggreek?lang=la&lookup=duck&type=begin&options=Sort+Results+Alphabetically&.submit=Do+Search

daemon, daemonis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2312270
diabolus, diaboli
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2313673

sol, solis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2344584

hibernicus, a, um
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Caes.+Gal.+5.13.1

felis, felis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?layout.reflookup=feles&layout.refembed=2&doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2317877&layout.reflang=la&layout.refwordcount=4

ferox, ferocis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2317972

helluo, helluonis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?lang=la&lookup=helluo&bytepos=0&wordcount=1&embed=2

aries, arietis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%233622

bellator, bellatoris (used as a substantive)
bellatrix, bellatricis
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%235115

femina, feminae
feminus, a, um
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2317911

arcus, arcus
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%233486

tigris, tigris
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2348343

futuor, futuere
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2319174

pugno, pugnare
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2339478

What Is A Hokie?
http://www.unirel.vt.edu/vthistory/hokie-explained.html

SEARCH TERMS

Lewis and Short Latin Dictionary

hlabadie-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by kpierce-ga on 10 Jan 2004 12:04 PST
This is a bit helpful, but I'm looking for the phrases.  What I mean
is that the nouns have to have the right  tense, otherwise the phrases
will come across as he Latin equivalent of broken English.

It's true that no one may ever try to understand these phrases -
they're meant to be a stealthy addition to a one-of-a-kind gift, but
if someone does care to translate them, I want them to be correct.

Most of my high school Latin has gone out the window, but what I do
remember is that the noun changes to an accusative when something is
being done "to it".  The nouns you?ve provided are in, I believe, the
nominative tense.   So, though you've provided nominative singular and
nominative plural, I think I need mostly accusative plural versions of
these nouns.

Additionally, because the phrases are in the form of commands or
admonitions (not even complete sentences), there are probably other
subtleties to their proper formation.

For all the above reasons I sought help in the translation of the
complete phrases, as opposed to just looking up the words and piecing
them together myself.

Clarification of Answer by hlabadie-ga on 10 Jan 2004 12:41 PST
I'm sorry that you found the Answer unsatisfactory, although unjustifiably.

First, nouns do not have tenses, but rather declensions of inflected
endings. Verbs have tenses (not to mention moods, persons, etc.).

Second, The nouns and their agreeing adjectives in the Answer have the
correct inflectional endings -- they are all accusative plural, the
case and number required by the imperative and the context, a team
being more than one person. You no doubt have forgotten the endings,
and have, therefore, incorrectly complained that the Answers are in
the nominative. (In some instances, the nominative and the accusative
are identical, but you probably have forgotten that, too. In almost
all instances, the vocative and nominative are identical, by the way.)

Take, for example, ursus, ursi. The inflections for the masculine
second declension noun are:

Singular
ursus - nominative
ursi - genitive
urso - dative
ursum - accusative
urso -ablative
ursus - vocative

Plural

ursi - nominative (identical to the genitive, you will notice)
ursorum - genitive
ursis - dative
ursos - accusative
ursis - ablative
ursi - vocative


Castor, a third declension noun, on the other hand, has both
nominative and accusative with identical endings.

castor
castoris
castori
castorem
castore

castores
castorum
castribus
castores
castoribus

If you had used the Perseus site, you could have checked the
inflections by consulting the Morphological Tool, which analyzes forms
and identifies the case and number of a word. It would seem a bit too
much to expect that the Answer itself would contain a complete
tutorial on all the Latin declensions.

As for the objection that there are "other subtleties," I am puzzled.
The imperative is simple, "Do this." "Futuite castores" is all that
there is. As you mentioned some familiarity with Latin, however
fleeting and distant, and which you reinforced by your comment that
you could ""futuite" this and "futuite" that," I assumed that it would
be no trouble at all to put the verb, uniform in all instances, with
the supplied nouns and adjectives.

Again, I'm sorry that you found the Answer inadequate, even if through
an innocent misunderstanding.

Also by the way, it is generally considered good form to rate an
Answer after asking for Clarification, rather than to presuppose that
a Clarification will not improve the Answer or explain some
misunderstanding.

hlabadie-ga

Clarification of Answer by hlabadie-ga on 10 Jan 2004 14:11 PST
Using the Morphology Tool

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?lang=la

one finds that for "ursos," the tool returns this:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?lookup=ursos&.submit=Analyze+Form&lang=la&formentry=1

ursus a bear
urs˘s masc acc pl

hlabadie-ga

Clarification of Answer by hlabadie-ga on 11 Jan 2004 06:41 PST
Is there some other point about which you feel uncertain and which
requires clarification?

hlabadie-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by kpierce-ga on 13 Jan 2004 07:48 PST
Okay, I'm assembling the phrases:

Which is correct?
      Futuite Ursos Aureos
or
      Ursos Aureos Futuite 

Thanks!

Clarification of Answer by hlabadie-ga on 13 Jan 2004 09:17 PST
In ordinary declarative sentences, it is normal for verbs to occur at the end.

Thus, "The sailor loves the girl," would usually be written "nauta
puellam amat," (nauta, nom.s., sailor, puellam, acc.s., girl, amat,
3rd.s. act. ind., loves).

There are exceptions, of course, depending upon the context and the
auctorial intentions. Word order in Latin can be very flexible. (It
isn't immaterial, but flexible.)

Imperatives, however, want to impress upon the listener the urgency of
the command, and the verb comes first to draw the listener's
attention. Thus, "futuite ursos aureos" would be the preferred
construction. (There is a form in Latin called the jussive, a use of
the subjunctive mood, that parallels the imperative, but it is not
really pertinent for this discussion.)

hlabadie-ga
kpierce-ga rated this answer:2 out of 5 stars

Comments  
Subject: Re: English to Latin translations needed of short offensive athletic phrases
From: mathtalk-ga on 08 Jan 2004 13:49 PST
 
Perhaps you would have more success if you asked separately for the
translations of the team/mascot names, substituting an inoffensive
verb like "Praise (the whomever)".  That might reduce your own efforts
to selecting the translation of a single word.

regards, mathtalk-ga
Subject: Re: English to Latin translations needed of short offensive athletic phrases
From: hlabadie-ga on 08 Jan 2004 20:14 PST
 
futuo, futuere - to have carnal knowledge (Latin for the Anglo-Saxon)
futuite - plural imperative

pugno, pugnare - to fight
pugnate - plural imperative

hlabadie-ga
Subject: Re: English to Latin translations needed of short offensive athletic phrases
From: kpierce-ga on 10 Jan 2004 12:05 PST
 
I've upped the price to $10 and clarified why simple dictionary work
does not necessarily satisfy the request.
Subject: Sorry about that.
From: kpierce-ga on 11 Jan 2004 07:06 PST
 
I didn't know that rating the answer would CLOSE the question.  I have
askked Google to reopen the question.  If they reopen I will increase
the rating.  Thanks for clearing things up.
Subject: Re: English to Latin translations needed of short offensive athletic phrases
From: hlabadie-ga on 11 Jan 2004 08:46 PST
 
Thanks.

Feel free to ask for Clarification on any point. The Customer's
satisfaction is the primary concern. Researchers strive to present
correct, complete, and documented Answers. The links on any cited page
are often vital parts of an Answer, as in this instance with the
Morphology Tool link on each of the Perseus Web pages, although it
might not have been obvious.

hlabadie-ga

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