I want to buy a new 2002 Porsche Boxster S from Roger Beasley Porsche
in Austin, Texas. Boxster sales are down about 30% nationally.
Evidence of Porsche North America wanting to move 2002s before the
2003s arrive in September, is their promotional financing this month
of as low as 4% for a lease.

How much below MSRP should I initally offer, and above how much below
MSRP should I refuse to pay?

I've dropped of my application to be a Google Reseacher, but they said
it'll be up to a month, so you may get some help for free on this one
:).

If you can get 3-5k off you are probably doing well unless you wants
to wait until the 2003 model arrives then he will have more bargaining
power if you can get one. I've heard that Porsche is thinking of
offering discounts to dealers to move out the 2002 models but I'm not
sure what the amount is going to be. So, go in with a very low offer
and see what happens. Then walk away to see if it is too low they will
either let him know before he reaches the door or if it is too low
they will let you go.

Hope This Helps,
-Trav

I originally wanted to comment on it but from the time I started
typing till I clicked Post, someone locked it.  However, it's free
now.

First of all, you can't just throw down a price and expect them to
bite, you gotta work on them some, especially if they are new and not
hip to the game.  You should start at the price and then work them
down to the target price.

Now, for the information.  I went to MSN CarPoint and looked up your
specific 2002 Porsche Boxter S
(http://carpoint.msn.com/autopricer/Tool.asp?Year=2002&Make=Porsche&Model=Boxster&Trim=S)
(Note:  You'll need to download a Microsoft Auto-Pricer applet because
they have all the options Porsche has so you can pick out your car
with options and know the exact dollar amount, assuming that
dealership has the same rates).  They list the MSRP base price of $51k
or $52k depending on where you look.  If you were pretty sharp and got
a good break, you could swing $47k or $48k.  I don't know how much
that particular dealership would be willing to go in regards to your
claim that Boxter sales are down and that they possibly want to get
them off the lot.  You could probably knock a few more thousand,
possibly settling on $45k?

As far as how far below MSRP should you refuse to pay, only suckers
pay full price.  Haggling down new car prices is the American Way, I
wouldn't settle paying anything higher than $49k.

Keep in mind, all this is not set in stone, there are many factors
that will affect price setting.  Experience of salesman, motivation to
sell, comission, your apparent desire to buy the vehicle, the style
and attitude you carry yourself and many more.  The guys and girls in
this business can read it all and make it more difficult to bring them
down.  Just try and find a young guy and don't look like a sucker. 
Good luck, Nate.

Just a hint that has worked for me on my last two auto purchases, one
of which was a Porsche C2. This will only work if you are paying cash
or have non-dealership financing already worked out.

Decide before you walk in exactly what you are willing to pay.  Then
play the haggle game for a while if they get below the set amount
great, if they don’t reach it and it doesn’t feel like they will pull
out the SINGLE check you brought with you and write it for the amount
you are willing to pay. Tell the sales guy “Here it is hand me the
keys and the title or tear it up.” Then, and this is critical, stand
up. You have to make the guy know you are leaving in the next few
minute, with or without the car.

Another bonus to this method is they have a real hard time adding on
the extended warranty or undercoating because you don’t have another
check with you.

Since you are buying a Porsche to add a little fun to the game find a
friend with an old pick-up truck to give you a ride to the dealership
and wear clothes that look you just got off the farm.

Hello Carbaquist!

Once upon a time I had worked as a salesperson in the auto industry,
so I have a fair amount experience in this realm. However, my
experience with Porsche has been limited to lusting after their latest
and greatest, so quirks specific to the brand are beyond my scope of
experience.

First off, you're looking at a premium vehicle, and the standard
practice in the industry is to sell at MSRP on such cars. I sold
Corvettes at the dealer I worked at, and with the C5 we had to turn
away anyone who insisted at bargaining (at that time, I hear it's a
bit different now). It was frustrating as a salesperson to lose those
customers, but it was dealership policy, and since they were selling
out their allotment, it was a good business practice.

You say that sales are off 30%; I'm not privy to that information so
I'll take it as fact. The important thing to consider is the
dealership's inventory pressure. Is the Boxster you're looking for in
scarce supply or is it "stacked up like cordwood" on the dealer's lot?
If it's scarce you're going to have a tough time dealing. If it's in
abundant supply, then you're in a good position. You'll be in even
better shape if you're willing to be flexible on options and color.
Also, with the Cayenne reportedly coming in this fall, pressure to
clear some of the lot to make room for it will add to your advantage.

The links below mention an overall North American sales decline for
the Porsche line in early 2002, specifically in the Boxster line.
However, those declines are being offset by gains in other regions.
Thus the pressure to sell may not be as great as you might expect.

http://www.autointell.com/News-2002/April-2002/April-2002-3/April-17-02-p5.htm

www.porsche.com/english/company/annualreport/download/
texts/bilder/shareholders_newsletter.pdf

According to the Roger Beasley website they have 19 Boxster S's on the
lot. They still have some 2001 Boxsters listed, which implies that
they're willing to hold onto inventory as opposed to discounting.
Though they might be option combinations that aren't very
marketable... 45 Boxsters is a lot to have hanging around though, so I
think you're chances of going below MSRP are good.

I'd offer something like $2500-3000 below sticker, maybe a bit more.
From kbb.com there's nearly a $6500 difference between invoice and
sticker on the base model, so you do have a lot of room to play with.
I'd consider a good bargain to be $1000-$1500 below sticker, but
that's a bit off the cuff.

One final suggestion: salespeople will usually treat you better if you
treat them with respect and a fair helping of honesty. The good ones
can see through most of the consumer ploys that are out there, so
being upfront with them is almost always appreciated. If they don't
have final authority on the deal (and they almost never do), they'll
go to bat for you with the sales manager if they like you as a person.
So approach them with your information and your position, and treat
them with respect; it is often a great investment (think of it as
earning $100-200/hour for your attitude alone) :)

Good luck with your search, and happy driving! 

jickster-ga

I too am not a certified researcher yet, but I will galdly share what
i know of the auto industry.

I have worked in the business, and was the General Sales Manager of
Geweke Toyota in Lodi, CA.  Just so you know that I come at this from
the other side, so to speak.

Step one:  forget the MSRP lablel.  Stop thinking in terms of discount
off sticker.

Go to Edmunds.com and look at invoice pricing on your Boxster S.  See
it here:  http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/porsche/boxster/s2drconvertible32l6cyl6m/prices.html

This is a page of reference, and should not be considered 100% fact,
but it will get you close.

With that in mind, go in with a reasonable offer above invoice.  In
most states, if you tell the dealer you want to see the actual
invoice, they are required to show it to you.

Typical dealer profit on the Boxster S is running around 7k.  They
will hol dmore profit on this car for a couple of reasons.  The most
obvious is that it is a premium vehicle, and commands a premium price.
 Second, and most importantly, Porsche has no dealer holdback.

For most cars, the manufacurer pays a percentage to the dealer for
every unit thye sell, regardless of selling price.  For many domestic
manufacturer's that holdback is 2-3% of the total MSRP.  So, when they
sell that Ford Taurus for $1k over invoice, they are making another
$1200 in holdback for a total profit of $2200.  Since Porsche does not
pay holdback, its up to the dealler to make all he can.

Now, how much to offer?  Don't insult them by offering $500 over on a
Boxster.  You will be branded as just a tire-kicker, and not a serious
buyer.  In most cases, you can just ask the manager how much over
invoice he is willing to sell a car for, today.

Make your move toward the end of the month too.  That is when
commissions and bonuses are on the line.  Mid-day, weekdays is best as
well.

Keep in mind that the dealer can make up some of his profit in the
finance office.  Do your research on the best interest rate you can
get.  Let them know up front that you have a loan arranged at x%, but,
if they can match that, you will let them finance in-house.  It will
be an inentive to them to keep the financing there, keep your interest
rate low, and sell the car.

Finally, don't lock yourself into this one particular dealer.  Just
because he is the only one around, that does not mean there are not
options.  Look for an auto broker who can arrange a deal through
alternate channels and deliver the car to you.

Have fun
Cheers
E