first I'd like to excuse in advance me for my english. I'm not a
native speaker. Though, I hope you'll understand and particularly -
answer it :)

I'm looking for the family crest of the family "Pezelj" in Croatia of
a region callled "Poljica". Poljica used to be a principality, which
at different times was under control of Hungary, Venetia, and the
Austrian Empire.

I looked around in the internet and found some links with the name in
conjunction with the poljica history, but I failed to find the arms of
that family.

Fortunately I found hints in several books, that this family was one
of the nobiles (nobelman) in this principality. Furthermore I found
out, that noble families are "registered" in each of that empires
mentioned (Venetia, Kingdom of Hungary, Austrian Empire) in a book of
noble families. All of them are mentioned with an arm and a short
statement of the origin of the nobility. Unfortuantely, I just found a
hungarian record of noble families with an arm of a family "von
Peczely" of which I think they arn't the ones I'm looking for, but
maybe the resercher has access to such kind of books (venetian or
austrian records) or facsimiles of them.

In above mentioned books I found different writings of the name:
pezeljevic, pzeglievic, pezeljic,

also 
pezeljevich recen(latin: dictus) budacich

please provide me with the arm and maybe some short statements about
the family and the source(s).

Many thanks in advanc

---

Request for Question Clarification by scriptor-ga on 15 Jan 2004 11:39 PST

Dear pezi,

Though I can't answer your question, I think I can provide some help.
Since the Poljica region has been under Austrian rule from 1815-1918,
the local nobility and their family crests surely were registered in
the Austrian archives, as you suggested.
The old Austrian Nobility Archive (Adelsarchiv) still exists; it is
kept by the Austrian State Archive, General Administrative Archive
(Österreichisches Staatsarchiv, Allgemeines Verwaltungsarchiv) today.
The archive will, if possible, answer requests for information from
their collections. This service is subject to payment. For detailed
information and advice on what do to in your particular case, please
contact:

Allgemeines Verwaltungsarchiv
Nottendorfergasse 2
1030 Wien
ÖSTERREICH / AUSTRIA
--
Telephone (general information): +43(0)1-795040
Telephone (Nobility Archive, Dr. Gröger): +43(0)1-79540?353
Fax: +43(0)1-79540?109
E-Mail: avapost@oesta.gv.at
Website: http://www.oesta.gv.at/


Hope this will be useful!
Best regards,
Scriptor

---

Clarification of Question by pezi-ga on 18 Jan 2004 12:44 PST

as a clarification is requested, I feel somehow obliged to do so.
(Though, I'm not sure, if it is really a clarification..) During my
researches I found several similar family names, which might be
connected to family "Pezelj", but I'm not able to find or prove the
connection. I know, that not all similar names must have a relation to
Pezelj, but for the following names there seem to be indications for
some relation, so that it is worth to take a closer look:

1) Pezé, de 
(also: de Pezey, de Pezay; see e.g.:
http://www.nga.gov/collection/gallery/gg56/gg56-49933.0-exhibit.html)
- seems to be an old (see:
http://www.loire-france.com/villes/loir-et-cher/marolles/) french
family. The possible connection to the Principality of Poljica is the
fact that, the hungarian king, who is related to the french noble
family of "Anjou", installed some noble families in Poljica, known as
"ugricici". Therefore "Pezelj" might be a derivation of that name.
This "installation" is maybe researchable. Maybe the genealogy of "de
Pezey" may help also.

2) (von) Pezel (alias Pesel, Petzel etc.) 
The origin of the name is slavian, particularly slesian (middle east
germany) a describes descendants of men called "Peter" (therefore
unfortunately many "Pezel" lines may exist at least in Germany).
During my researches I found out that a some German emigrant called
"MAthias dictus Pezel" (or so) lived in Transylvania about 1400+. As
Transylvania has been - as I think - part of Hungary and as the
statute of the German emigrants in this area is quite similar to the
"Statute of Poljica" this might also be an indication of a connection
to Poljica and lastly to "Pezelj" family.

3) von Peczely
Austro-Hungarian family of which I may scan a facsimile of their arm.
May also be descendents of de Pezey.

As I have the arm of de Pezé
(http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Ordres/Saint_Esprit/1734.htm)
and as a "hardcopy" of von Peczely. The arms of the other derived
names may be interesting in order to analyze, if there is any
connection by comparing them. Could you provide any of them?

And/or genealogies respectively histories of said families, which
migth excist within the internet could be helpful.

Or any record of the installation or emigration of these families.

Sorry, if I wrote to much. I'm exciting trying to find these
connections, but I reached a point, where I need some help or
impulses.

Many thanks,
pezi

Do you know these books?

http://www.golden-marketing.hr/rezultat.asp?idka=7&naz=Heraldika

Dear scriptor, dear fp,

thank you for your comments, which I'd like to comment on. I think I
took a look at the book "Der Adel von Kroatien und Slavonien" but
found no record of family "Pezelj". I think this is because, the
Austrian Empire didn't recognize the nobility of at least a part of
poljicas families and I think that this book is based on austrian
records.

Nevertheless, "HRVATSKI GRBOVNIK: genealogija i grboslovlje" or "DER
ADEL VON KROATIEN UND SLAVONIEN" made me curious (thanks fp) and if no
researcher can help me I will also take the austrian archive intop
account (thanks scriptor. by the way, seem to be familiar with poljica
history, that makes me curious too :) ).

Maybe someone can provide me with the iformation, if "Pezelj" is
mentioned, since I'd like to avoid buying this book in vain.

Best regards,
pez

Dear pezi,

Here is another link which may be helpful. As you can see "DER ADEL
VON KROATIEN UND SLAVONIEN" and "DER ADEL DES KÖNIGREICHS DALMATIEN"
are reprinted editions (Siebmacher).

Further details:
http://www.bl.uk/collections/wider/germanref.html#herald

The index by Jäger-Sustenau (1964) should list all families mentioned
in these volumes.
Depending on where you live, your nearest University Library might have a copy.

Regards,
fp

dear fp,

I'll try to find Jägers index for Siebenmachers books. This might be helpful, too. 

kind regards
pezi

Dear fp, dear scriptor, here is a little feedback:

@ fp:
I've visited a local library, which has Jäger-Sustenaus Index and all
of Siebmachers books. I found arms for Pézé, Pezold, Percl and again
Peczely (hungarian nobel families) but no Pezelj. Nevertheless,
Siebmacher noted, that there exist many families "Peczely" written in
different ways and different arms, so that I meanwhile think, that
this might be the right trace.

Why didn't he show this other families incl. their genealogies and
arms?Is there still a chance to find them and where? (The croatian
heraldik books are very expensive about 200$ and more)

@scriptor
I've also contacted the Austrian Adels Archiv by email, but didn't get
any response. I wrote a reminder saying, that I would appreciate any
feedback, just to know, if anything will happen.

Here some link, that might be interesting for future research jobs, too:
http://myhistories.com/heraldry.htm

Kind regards,
pezi

Dear pezi,

Thank you for your feedback.

Sorry, but I've no idea why Siebmacher didn't publish anything
concerning the other families.
Some biographical details on Siebmacher / Sibmacher:
http://www.artnet.com/library/07/0784/T078490.asp

You may find this book helpful:
Thomas Freiherr v. Fritsch: Die Gothaischen Taschenbücher, Hofkalender
und Almanach.
Limburg (Germany), 1968
ISBN: 3-7980-0697-0 

For more details (i.e. "Band 2"):
http://www.starkeverlag.de/shopfactory/GesamtkatalogBuchprogrammAus_dem_Deutschen_AdelsarchivWerke_innerhalb_der_Reihe.html


Regards,
fp