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Q: Computers ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   3 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Computers
Category: Computers > Operating Systems
Asked by: garyerlandson-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 11:47 PST
Expires: 28 Feb 2004 11:47 PST
Question ID: 301519
I have a minor computer problem but can find no answers to how to deal
with it.  If you have a minute perhaps you can give me little advice
about what to do.
 
When I do a  defrag on the hard drive of our computer I get to 32% and
there is a clearly bad file or cluster which stops the defrag and
suggests scan disk or locks up the computer.  When you scan the disk
there are "errors" starting at about cluster 85,131 and going through
85,260, as near as I can tell.  The error message shows the error at
"C:\windows\installer\055gmrd3.msi" at each stop.  I can go past and
finish the scan by just skipping the fix and moving on.  Fixing, or
attempting to fix, the problem again locks up the computer.  It seems
to me that I simply have a bad file at the above address.  Yesterday I
went to windows and down loaded and installed "installer" but that
didn't change the problem.
 
This doesn't seem to be a big problem it just bugs me that I can't
defrag or repair the problem with scandisk.  I cannot find any on line
help and most friends say just forget it.  Any thoughts on how to find
and fix a bad file or cluster?
 
Thanks

Request for Question Clarification by feilong-ga on 29 Jan 2004 16:01 PST
Hi,

Do you use Scandisk or Norton Disk Doctor? Do you have another drive
or system you can use to backup your data? Please run a thorough scan
on your drive and tell me if that solved the problem.

-Feilong

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 29 Jan 2004 16:25 PST
garyerlandson...

Have you tried deleting the specified file from the specified
location, or simply moving it to another location and then
running scandisk and defrag? 

Since it's an installer file, I also have to wonder if perhaps
you installed something and never rebooted afterwards, leaving
the installer still active, since it never had a chance to 
delete the setup files (which it would do on the next reboot).

Also, you might want to run scandisk in DOS, prior to Windows
booting up. This would also eliminate the possibility that
Windows is still actively using the file, and is therefore
unable to defrag or move it.

Let me know where this takes you.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 29 Jan 2004 17:04 PST
Feilong:  Use scan disk, also use Norton antivirus scan which goes
very slowly but will get through. Have run thorough scan disk and it
will not fix the problem. On Standard Scan it will not even find the
problem!

Sublimel-ga: Some time ago I ran scan disc in DOS with the same
result.  It is very possible that something is running.  Defrag
clearly shows the symbol for a bad file in the matrix as it scans. 
That is where it stops.  I beleive it can't read the file.  I think
this a bad file.  I think it is in installer.  I don't know how to
find it or replace it.  How about that?

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 29 Jan 2004 18:04 PST
gary...

If you're not familiar with where the shortcut is for 
Windows Explorer, just go to 'Start' -> 'Run' and type
in 'Explorer' - no quotes - and hit 'Enter'.

To find the file, just open Windows Explorer and type,
or paste, the address you gave into the navigation window:
C:\windows\installer\

Or, you can follow the tree of directories in the left
frame down from the C drive to the Windows directory, 
and then to the installer directory, and click on it.

Then look in the right-hand frame for the file - they should
be in alphabetical order.

You also have the option of right-clicking on the C drive
icon in Explorer and doing a 'search' or 'find', whichever
it is in the Windows you're using, and enter the filename,
'055gmrd3.msi'. Once you've found it, I'd suggest moving 
it to another location temporarily, and the immediately 
running a thorough scandisk and defrag, if you make it 
through scandisk. 

Let me know where this takes you, and we can continue
from there.

sublime1-ga

Request for Question Clarification by feilong-ga on 29 Jan 2004 18:07 PST
This kind of problem happens when data is written on a part of the
disk that became bad or contain that were not identified by a disk
scanning utility such as Scandisk or Norton Disk Doctor as physically
of bad.

If no other drive scanner can fix the problem your last option of
course is to backup your important files on another disk and reformat
the drive and run scandisk or other reliable disk scanning utility.
The disk scanner can then identify that faulty part of the disk and
mark it as "bad" so that data will not be written on it.

You can confirm that "055gmrd3.msi" is the problem by copying or
moving the file to another location. If a copy error message appeared
or your system hanged then it is the damaged file.

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 29 Jan 2004 18:10 PST
Oh - It occurred to me you might not know how to move
the file. you can just left-click on it and hold the
mouse button down while you drag it to another directory
in the left-hand frame. If you want to create a directory
that's easy to find, just click on your C drive icon, and
then go up to the menubar in Explorer and click on 'File'
-> 'New' -> 'directory', and name it 'a', so it will be at
the top of the directory tree under the C drive.

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 29 Jan 2004 18:23 PST
Hi gary...

Given weaver-ga's comment, you may want to copy it
to a floppy disk in your A drive, and then delete
it from your hard drive altogether. Many, but not
all, .msi installer files are small enough to fit
on a floppy disk, which holds 1.44MB. You can see
the size of the file in the right-hand frame when
you locate it in Windows Explorer.

If it's too big to fit on a floppy, you may want
to just delete it anyway. There's little likelihood
that you'll ever need it. It probably came from a
Windows Update installation.

sublime1-ga

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 29 Jan 2004 18:56 PST
Oh - and just to be sure, make certain to empty the Recycle
Bin, or Trash, or whatever it's called on your Windows system.

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 30 Jan 2004 05:16 PST
Good morning,

I have gone in search of 055gmrd3.msi and found that it does not
exist?!  By the way this is a Dell Computer and the operating system
is Windows ME 4.90.3000.  I would assume that the disk itself is
produced by Dell but could find no evidence of what it is.  Is there
anyway to move or delete a bad file from the display of the defrag
operation?  I can see that it exists there clearly.

Request for Question Clarification by feilong-ga on 30 Jan 2004 05:43 PST
Have you enabled "show all hidden files" on your system before
searching for 055gmrd3.msi? It's possible that the file is hidden.

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 30 Jan 2004 07:13 PST
How would I enable show all hidden files?

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 30 Jan 2004 07:23 PST
gary...

To enable 'show all hidden files', open Explorer and go to the
menubar at the top. Click on 'Tools' -> 'Folder Options', then 
go to the 'View' tab and select 'Show Hidden Files & Folders'.
You might also want to uncheck 'Hide file extensions for known
file types'. Click 'Apply' and 'OK', then search again.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 30 Jan 2004 07:56 PST
Show all hidden files was enabled.  I will also uncheck as you
advised, how about "Hide protected operating system files", should
uncheck that also or wait until the  next search?

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 30 Jan 2004 08:40 PST
gary...

Yeah - you may as well uncheck that, as well, since .msi
files are Microsoft installation files, they *might* fall
into that category, but I doubt it. Usually that refers to
vital files of the Windows operating system, like pagefile.sys
It's okay to make those visible as long as you don't go 
changing any of them. I don't know about Windows ME, but in
Windows 2000, those files will show with the icon slightly 
clouded, even if you make them visible.

I'll be back this afternoon to check in on you.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 30 Jan 2004 10:21 PST
It turns out 055gmrd3.msi shows up only when you look into the
protected operating files.  The symbol makes it look like a video file
of some type.  So what now!

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 30 Jan 2004 16:21 PST
gary...

So now, look at the size of the file. If it's less than
1.44MB, copy it to a floppy disk using the process I 
suggested in an earlier post. If it's too big to copy
to a floppy, and you don't have a CD-R drive you can
copy it to, or a separate partition or drive (which 
would be labeled 'D' or 'E', then go ahead and delete
it. Then empty your trash bin and run Scandisk, followed
by Defrag.

Let me know if this works for you, so I can post an
official answer in the answer box and get paid.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 30 Jan 2004 18:05 PST
Please keep in mind this file did not appear until I let the program
show operating files.  Could that mean this is an operating file.  msi
would indicate it is not but I am a little concerned about taking it
out!

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 30 Jan 2004 18:33 PST
gary...

If it's possible to make a copy of it to save somewhere other
than your C drive, by all means do so. Otherwise, I wouldn't
worry about it. I can guarantee you it's not a file required
by the Windows operating system. As I noted earlier, it's 
likely the installer file for a Windows Update session you
accomplished some time in the past.

sublime1-ga

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 30 Jan 2004 20:08 PST
gary...

To further assuage your concerns, let me point out that the
location of the file is an indicator of its function, as
well as the .msi extension. Given its location in the
'installer' directory, it is clear that it's an installation
file, and not of the critical importance of files in the
'windows' or system' directory. The 'installer' directory
is simply an archive for storing MS install files, just
in case they might be needed to reinstall the program, or
update, at some time in the future.

This is equivalent to me saving a copy of the install file
for some commonly available utility such as Adobe Acrobat.
After installing the program, the install file is no longer
needed, and I could delete it without consequence. I could
also save a copy in a folder of similar install files, but
chances are that the program itself will be outdated, and
updated, long before I might need/want to reinstall that
program, and a newer version would be readily available on
the internet.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 31 Jan 2004 06:02 PST
OK, went to file 055gmrd3.msi and looked at it.  It was 7.+ meg but
named "picture it".  Didn't look like anything I would use so I
deleted it!  When running scan disk we now have errors from cluster
85,247 thru 85,260 with file name C:\RESTORE\TEMP\A1384398.CPY .  This
file also will no show up in search until I search operating files. 
When it turned up it was 7.+ meg and I was just going to delete it but
I get a message "Cannot delete source file maybe used in it"  this
file is also named picture it and is something to do with
"publishing".  We have published to a web site in recent months with
no problems and this problem is several years old.  Perhaps we are 80%
there.

Request for Question Clarification by sublime1-ga on 31 Jan 2004 13:22 PST
gary...

The 'copy' looks to be the same file, given the identical size,
saved in an ME 'restore' directory. I'm not familiar with
the workings of ME's 'System Restore' function, but I would
bet this is ME's version of the ability to restore the system
to it's most recent working state, in the event of a crash
from which you are unable to recover. This function would
save copies of the system registry files and other files
which it has deemed 'necessary' - but which you may not.

Incidentally, given the .msi extension, for Microsoft Installer,
and the likelihood that this is an MS product, I searched for
PictureIt and found this MS product with that name:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/imaging/products/pipinfo.asp

If you remember installing this product, it might make it
easier by simply uninstalling this product for the time being,
assuming you still have the product install CD, and re-installing
it after you straighten out this problem. Uninstalling it would,
theoretically, eliminate both the .msi and the .CPY file from
the system archives.

However, there is also a component of the MS Internet Explorer
browser which is named PictureIt, and it's possible that this
.msi file refers to that component.

Working with things as they are, however, we need to know a little
more about ME's 'System Restore'. Here's a page from MS support
which details its inner workings:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;267951

Note where it says:

"Restore points are created by Installer packages that use
 the new Microsoft Software Installer (MSI) technology."

Also realize that non-MS programs can, and do, use the MSI
technology.

What this means is that the 'PictureIt' program, whether or
not it is an MS program, used the MSI installer format, and
so Windows ME created a 'restore point' when the program was
installed, archived and secured the install file in the 
'installer' folder, and then archived and secured a copy of
the install file in the 'restore' folder. Microsoft is sparing
no effort in saving us from ourselves and our presumed 
ineptitude... :)

Now we have to fool the 'System Restore' function.
One way to do this is, after making sure that the system 
didn't *already* restore the 055gmrd3.msi file to the 
'installer' directory by using its 'copy' in the 'restore'
directory, open the System Restore Utility and create a
new 'restore point' which won't backup the (now missing)
.msi file.

Reboot and check to make sure the .msi file is still gone,
and then check and see if the system eliminated the .CPY
file from the 'restore' directory. If it didn't, try to 
delete the .CPY file from the 'copy' folder.
Empty your Trash bin.

If this works, then reboot and proceed with Scandisk and 
Defrag.

If System Restore isn't cooperating, you could follow the
instructions at the bottom of the page cited above in order
to temporarily disable the System Restore Utility; reboot;
make sure the .msi file is still gone, and delete the .CPY
file. Empty your Trash bin, and run Scandisk and Defrag.

If you get through them okay, re-enable 'System Restore',
reboot, and create a new 'restore point'.

Let me know how it turns out.

sublime1-ga

Clarification of Question by garyerlandson-ga on 31 Jan 2004 16:34 PST
sublime1-ga: You win.  Early this morning I realized that I should
look for "picture it" and see what it was.  It was in the start
programs file but we could not uninstall it so we went to explorer and
deleted it.  I ran scan disc several times throught the area where we
had had the problems and eventually it went through with out problems.
 We did a complete thorough scan disc (no problems) and a complete
defrag (no problems).  Although when I restarted the computer
following defrag it still behaved as though there was some type of
shut down problem. I have no idea what happened to the restore file
but I think you were right. Anyway, you have answered the question.  I
really have little understanding of these things but you were very
helpful in getting that scan and defrag thing done.  Thanks!
Answer  
Subject: Re: Computers
Answered By: sublime1-ga on 31 Jan 2004 17:53 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
gary...

Yay! It's always a thrill to work through the steps necessary
to resolve a computer problem at a distance. Your responsiveness
and feedback made it an enjoyable exchange.

As a formal answer, I will summarize the information I posted
in the steps which led to the resolution:

----------------------------------------------------

Have you tried deleting the specified file from the specified
location, or simply moving it to another location and then
running scandisk and defrag? 

Since it's an installer file, I also have to wonder if perhaps
you installed something and never rebooted afterwards, leaving
the installer still active, since it never had a chance to 
delete the setup files (which it would do on the next reboot).

Also, you might want to run scandisk in DOS, prior to Windows
booting up. This would also eliminate the possibility that
Windows is still actively using the file, and is therefore
unable to defrag or move it.

To find the file, just open Windows Explorer and type,
or paste, the address you gave into the navigation window:
C:\windows\installer\

Or, you can follow the tree of directories in the left
frame down from the C drive to the Windows directory, 
and then to the installer directory, and click on it.

Then look in the right-hand frame for the file - they should
be in alphabetical order.

If you're not familiar with where the shortcut is for 
Windows Explorer, just go to 'Start' -> 'Run' and type
in 'Explorer' - no quotes - and hit 'Enter'.

You also have the option of right-clicking on the C drive
icon in Explorer and doing a 'search' or 'find', whichever
it is in the Windows you're using, and enter the filename,
'055gmrd3.msi'. Once you've found it, I'd suggest moving 
it to another location temporarily, and the immediately 
running a thorough scandisk and defrag, if you make it 
through scandisk. 

Oh - It occurred to me you might not know how to move
the file. you can just left-click on it and hold the
mouse button down while you drag it to another directory
in the left-hand frame. If you want to create a directory
that's easy to find, just click on your C drive icon, and
then go up to the menubar in Explorer and click on 'File'
-> 'New' -> 'directory', and name it 'a', so it will be at
the top of the directory tree under the C drive.

Given weaver-ga's comment, you may want to copy it
to a floppy disk in your A drive, and then delete
it from your hard drive altogether. Many, but not
all, .msi installer files are small enough to fit
on a floppy disk, which holds 1.44MB. You can see
the size of the file in the right-hand frame when
you locate it in Windows Explorer.

If it's too big to fit on a floppy, you may want
to just delete it anyway. There's little likelihood
that you'll ever need it. It probably came from a
Windows Update installation.

Oh - and just to be sure, make certain to empty the Recycle
Bin, or Trash, or whatever it's called on your Windows system.

To enable 'show all hidden files', open Explorer and go to the
menubar at the top. Click on 'Tools' -> 'Folder Options', then 
go to the 'View' tab and select 'Show Hidden Files & Folders'.
You might also want to uncheck 'Hide file extensions for known
file types'. Click 'Apply' and 'OK', then search again.

You may as well uncheck "Hide protected operating system files",
as well, since .msi files are Microsoft installation files, they
*might* fall into that category, but I doubt it. Usually, that
refers to vital files of the Windows operating system, like 
pagefile.sys.

It's okay to make those visible as long as you don't go 
changing any of them. I don't know about Windows ME, but in
Windows 2000, those files will show with the icon slightly 
clouded, even if you make them visible.

So now, look at the size of the file. If it's less than
1.44MB, copy it to a floppy disk using the process I 
suggested in an earlier post. If it's too big to copy
to a floppy, and you don't have a CD-R drive you can
copy it to, or a separate partition or drive (which 
would be labeled 'D' or 'E', then go ahead and delete
it. Then empty your trash bin and run Scandisk, followed
by Defrag.

If it's possible to make a copy of it to save somewhere other
than your C drive, by all means do so. Otherwise, I wouldn't
worry about this .msi file being a critical file. I can 
guarantee you it's not a file required by the Windows 
operating system. As I noted earlier, it's likely the 
installer file for a Windows Update session you
accomplished some time in the past.

To further assuage your concerns, let me point out that the
location of the file is an indicator of its function, as
well as the .msi extension. Given its location in the
'installer' directory, it is clear that it's an installation
file, and not of the critical importance of files in the
'windows' or system' directory. The 'installer' directory
is simply an archive for storing MS install files, just
in case they might be needed to reinstall the program, or
update, at some time in the future.

This is equivalent to me saving a copy of the install file
for some commonly available utility such as Adobe Acrobat.
After installing the program, the install file is no longer
needed, and I could delete it without consequence. I could
also save a copy in a folder of similar install files, but
chances are that the program itself will be outdated, and
updated, long before I might need/want to reinstall that
program, and a newer version would be readily available on
the internet.

The 'copy' (.CPY) file you mentioned looks to be the same 
file, given the identical size, saved in an ME 'restore' 
directory. I'm not familiar with the workings of ME's 
'System Restore' function, but I would bet this is ME's
version of the ability to restore the system to it's most
recent working state, in the event of a crash from which
you are unable to recover. This function would save copies
of the system registry files and other files which it has
deemed 'necessary' - but which you may not.

Incidentally, given the .msi extension, for Microsoft Installer,
and the likelihood that this is an MS product, I searched for
PictureIt and found this MS product with that name:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/imaging/products/pipinfo.asp

If you remember installing this product, it might make it
easier by simply uninstalling this product for the time being,
assuming you still have the product install CD, and re-installing
it after you straighten out this problem. Uninstalling it would,
theoretically, eliminate both the .msi and the .CPY file from
the system archives.

However, there is also a component of the MS Internet Explorer
browser which is named PictureIt, and it's possible that this
.msi file refers to that component.

Working with things as they are, however, we need to know a little
more about ME's 'System Restore'. Here's a page from MS support
which details its inner workings:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;267951

Note where it says:

"Restore points are created by Installer packages that use
 the new Microsoft Software Installer (MSI) technology."

Also realize that non-MS programs can, and do, use the MSI
technology.

What this means is that the 'PictureIt' program, whether or
not it is an MS program, used the MSI installer format, and
so Windows ME created a 'restore point' when the program was
installed, archived and secured the install file in the 
'installer' folder, and then archived and secured a copy of
the install file in the 'restore' folder. Microsoft is sparing
no effort in saving us from ourselves and our presumed 
ineptitude... :)

Now we have to fool the 'System Restore' function.
One way to do this is, after making sure that the system 
didn't *already* restore the 055gmrd3.msi file to the 
'installer' directory by using its 'copy' in the 'restore'
directory, open the System Restore Utility and create a
new 'restore point' which won't backup the (now missing)
.msi file.

Reboot and check to make sure the .msi file is still gone,
and then check and see if the system eliminated the .CPY
file from the 'restore' directory. If it didn't, try to 
delete the .CPY file from the 'copy' folder.
Empty your Trash bin.

If this works, then reboot and proceed with Scandisk and 
Defrag.

If System Restore isn't cooperating, you could follow the
instructions at the bottom of the page cited above in order
to temporarily disable the System Restore Utility; reboot;
make sure the .msi file is still gone, and delete the .CPY
file. Empty your Trash bin, and run Scandisk and Defrag.

If you get through them okay, re-enable 'System Restore',
reboot, and create a new 'restore point'.

----------------------------------------------------

You noted: "...when I restarted the computer following 
defrag it still behaved as though there was some type of
shut down problem." If you mean that it ran Scandisk on
rebooting, I'm pretty sure that this was a temporary
behavior, which will not recur once the system stabilizes.


Please do not rate this answer until you are satisfied that
the answer cannot be improved upon by way of a dialog
established through the "Request for Clarification" process.

sublime1-ga


Searches done, via Google:

"picture it"
://www.google.com/search?q=%22picture+it%22

"Windows ME" "System Restore Utility"
://www.google.com/search?q=%22Windows+ME%22+%22System+Restore+Utility%22
garyerlandson-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thanks very much.  I would like to come back to tip when we have run a few days!

Gary

Comments  
Subject: Re: Computers
From: weaver-ga on 29 Jan 2004 18:14 PST
 
I hate to butt in here, but... Moving the file to a different
directory on the same partition, DOES NOT actually move the data to a
physically different part of the hard drive.  It simply changes the
pointers in the file allocation table.  So, unless the questioner has
a second hard drive (or partitioned drive) moving the file will make
no difference.

The first thing I would do is find out the manufacturer of the drive
and run their testing software on it.  That will tell you if the drive
is failing.  Some of the better programs out there can actually mark
sectors as bad and move the data elsewhere at that level.

Weaver
Subject: Re: Computers
From: mister2u-ga on 30 Jan 2004 13:04 PST
 
I fixed a computer with Norton anti-virus on it.Neither scandisk or
defrag would run until it was removed,it can be difficult to remove
entirely there is a tool at www.symantec.com that will help.NAV works
like a virus.
Subject: Re: Computers
From: sublime1-ga on 31 Jan 2004 22:10 PST
 
gary...

Thanks very much for the 5 stars. As for adding a tip, once
you've rated the answer, you lose the ability to add a tip.
If you're really want to do so, you could open a new question
with 'For sublime1-ga only' in the subject line, with a simple
question like my favorite color. Since the researcher receives
75% of the price of the question, but 100% of the tip, you may
want to price the question low and tip accordingly.

Please be assured that this is an option, not an expectation.

sublime1-ga

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