I'm trying to find the closest Latin translation for the english
phrase "May there always be carrot cake." Unusual, yes I know, but
I've decided to make it my chosen phrase of the month and would
appreciate the gravity that Latin would lend to the proceedings.
Possible?
Thanks much for any help.

Dear kaiton-ga;

Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to answer your interesting question.

The one-word Latin equivalent of forever is SEMPER, which means
"always" or "forever", as in the motto of the United States Marine
Corps, SEMPER FIDELES, "forever faithful". More elaborately, one might
use the phrase IN SAECULA which means ?forever? or IN SAECULA
SAECULORUM, which means ?forever and ever?.

Libum is the term used for cake, as evident in Cato?s recipe for libum
in his work, ?On Agriculture? (75 AD).

The term ?ab? indicates the source of a subject, literally meaning
?from? or ?of, as in ?manufactured from? or ?made of?.

Carrots, of course, have been given a Latin name, as have all species
of plants and animals so this one was not difficult to find. It is
known as officially as ?Daucus carota? meaning ?wild carrot? or simply
?carota? for short.

Since Latin is somewhat backward from what we are accustomed to
speaking today here are some options for you:

SEMPER LIBUM AB CAROTA 
literally, ?Forever cake of carrot?
translated, ?Carrot cake forever?

A more informal way of saying this adds ?us? on the word ?carota?
which applies the understanding ?of? to the preceding word. For
example:

SEMPER LIBUM CAROTUS
Again literally, ?Forever cake of carrot?
Again translated, ?Carrot cake forever?

Note that the term ?ab? is not used when the word ?carotus? is used
since the ?us? at the end of the word shorten word ?carota? already
implies where the cake came ?from? or what it is made ?of?.

Similarly then are these more elaborate statements:

IN SAECULA LIBUM AB CAROTA

IN SAECULA LIBUM CAROTUS

IN SAECULA SAECULORUM LIBUM CAROTUS

IN SAECULA SAECULORUM LIBUM AB CAROTA
(Sounds like a magic spell doesn?t it?)

I hope you find that my research exceeds your expectations. If you
have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise I welcome your rating
and your final comments and I look forward to working with you again
in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad-ga ? Google Answers Researcher



INFORMATION SOURCES

LATIN TRANSLATION
http://experts.about.com/q/2145/518143.htm

THE MEDIADROME
http://www.themediadrome.com/content/articles/food_articles/cake_history.htm

CARROT - DAUCUS CAROTA
http://www.viable-herbal.com/singles/herbs/s820.htm

TRAVELANGE DICTIONARY
http://translate.travlang.com/EnglishLatin/dict.cgi?query=FROM&max=50




SEARCH STRATEGY


SEARCH ENGINE USED:

Google ://www.google.com


SEARCH TERMS USED:

Used each word searching in combination with the phrase ?in latin? and ?the word?

---

Request for Answer Clarification by kaiton-ga on 04 Feb 2004 14:22 PST

Thank you for the detailed answer. I have a question though. 
From the possible translations you listed ("SEMPER LIBUM CAROTUS",
etc) I get the feel for "always be carrot cake" but not the "May
there." Is this something implied? How do we tack "may there" or its
equivalent on so it sounds more like a wish or toast and less like a
battle cry?
Thanks for your work thus far.

---

Clarification of Answer by tutuzdad-ga on 04 Feb 2004 15:33 PST

I'm sorry for not getting back to you immediately. I had to
unexpectedly leave my office as work was being shut down due to a
downpour of ice and sleet. By the time I returned hom and got back to
you I noticed that the comment was placed below.

I see your point and I do stand corrected. While the phrase SEMPER LIBUM CAROTUS
would convey an everlasting cake manufactured of carrots, the word
CAROTAE is more appropriate in that it indicates not only the content
of the cake "LIBUM" but an encompassing relationship to it. As my
collegue hlabadie-ga pointed out then, the term "sit" conveys "to
endlessly be", as in "may forever be" or "may it always", and does
imply "allowed to be" or "permitted to be", therefore, in this
instance SEMPER LIBUM CAROTAE SIT is indeed more appropriately
meaningful for your purposes.

Thank you hlabadie-ga 

Regards;
tutuzdad-ga

thank you, tutuzdad-ga and hlabadie-ga both.

May, as in a wish or intention, is in the subjunctive mood. "Let there
be light" is famously expressed as "fiat lux." (Note that lux is
nominative.) Similarly, the third person present active subjuctive of
the English verb to be (sum, esse - to be) is "sit".

http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/classics/latin/latin14.htm

"If you want to suggest to your companions that you do something, the
subjunctive of the first person plural is used. Bibamus! "let us
drink". Edamus! "let us eat". Amemus! "let us love". This is just a
matter of changing a to e or e (or i) to a. Ne laboremus! "let us not
work". This is the optative form of the subjunctive mood, so the
negative is ne, not non. Ducamus! "let us lead". You can also use the
subjunctive to tell someone not to do something: ne edas rosas --
"don't eat the roses". This is actually close to saying: "one
shouldn't eat the roses." The subjunctive can also be used in the
third person, instead of the rare regular imperative. For example,
vivit rex is "the king lives", but vivat rex is "long live the king".
The familiar word fiat is the third person singular of the present
subjunctive of fio, fieri, factus sum, (become), used as the passive
of facio, facere, feci, factus (do). Hence it means, "let it be done."
Fiat lux is "let there be light.""

Carota is first declension. The genitive singular in the first
declension is formed by adding ae to the stem. Thus carotae is the
correct form of the genitive.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?lookup=carotae&.submit=Analyze+Form&lang=la&formentry=1

semper libum carotae sit

hlabadie-ga

Just to be thorough, the use of the genitive in this manner is called
genitive of material.

http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.344.html

Alternately, the ablative of material (preposition "ex" + ablative)
could have been used: semper libum ex carota sit.

http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.403.html

hlabadie-ga