Is there any cultural evidence to support the notion that women use
lipstick as an attempt to recreate the look of their labia? My husband
seems to recall a television "documentary" that stated this. We have a
$500 bet on this- please help.

---

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 04 Feb 2004 22:11 PST

This theory was widely popularized by Desmond Morris, author of the
bestseller "The Naked Ape." Morris discussed the theory in a
television series entitled "The Human Sexes," which may be where your
husband picked it up.

Here's an entertaining article about the theory:

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/columnist/0,1886,145-228326-,00.html

And a bit on the theory's presentation on "The Human Sexes":

http://www.sextelevision.net/episodes/2-20/segtwo.html

I can gather information about Morris, and/or about the TV documentary
"The Human Sexes," but it's hard to present evidence supporting the
theory. What kind of evidence would you accept? As I understand it,
the theory is speculative, rather than based upon verifiable fact. I
doubt that somewhere there is a papyrus scroll with hieroglyphics that
say "When Cleopatra wears that red stuff on her mouth, it sure makes
me think of her other end." ;-)

My own theory is that women wear lipstick because young, nubile girls
tend to have redder lips than older women do. Older women like to look
younger, so they mimic the look. Oddly, this led to young girls
wearing lipstick in imitation of older women, in an effort to seem
more "mature."

---

Clarification of Question by smd2231-ga on 09 Feb 2004 22:25 PST

Hi pinkfreud- your answer covered what I needed to know- and I am now
the loser of a $500 bet with my husband. What the heck was Desmond
Morris thinking??
By the way, I loved your sense of humour about Cleopatra- I laughed
out loud, and that is always a good thing!

---

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 10 Feb 2004 09:37 PST

It is good to know that the material I provided was useful in
resolving your dispute with your husband. Sorry about the $500. I sure
wish I could get my husband to bet $500 on something involving labia.
Might perk up our conversations in the evening.

If you like, I'd be glad to gather a bit more about Desmond Morris's
theories and post an official answer to your question. Alternatively,
you can cancel the question so that you won't be charged (other than
the fifty-cent listing fee). Or, of course, another Researcher may
choose to answer the question.

In any case, it was an unusual and thought-provoking question, and for
that I thank you.

~pinkfreud

---

Clarification of Question by smd2231-ga on 11 Feb 2004 21:56 PST

Hi pinkfreud- I think sitting around and discussing labia is a
Canadian thing- we may be nice and polite and all that, but we're
generally very sexy people!
Anyway, please post your earlier response as an official one- I want
to pay you for your time and wisdom- and for the laughs. (I'm already
out $500- what's another 5 or 10?) Take care.

Thank you very much for accepting my remarks as the answer to your
question. I've reposted the material below, with a bit of added info
to ensure that you get your money's worth out of me, even though you
lost an alarming amount of money to the Mister.

======================================================================

This theory was widely popularized by Desmond Morris, author of the
bestseller "The Naked Ape." Morris discussed the theory in a
television series entitled "The Human Sexes," which may be where your
husband picked it up.

Here's an entertaining article about the theory:

The Straits Times
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/columnist/0,1886,145-228326-,00.html

And a bit on the theory's presentation on "The Human Sexes":

Sex TV
http://www.sextelevision.net/episodes/2-20/segtwo.html

I can gather information about Morris, and/or about the TV documentary
"The Human Sexes," but it's hard to present evidence supporting the
theory. What kind of evidence would you accept? As I understand it,
the theory is speculative, rather than based upon verifiable fact. I
doubt that somewhere there is a papyrus scroll with hieroglyphics that
say "When Cleopatra wears that red stuff on her mouth, it sure makes
me think of her other end." ;-)

My own theory is that women wear lipstick because young, nubile girls
tend to have redder lips than older women do. Older women like to look
younger, so they mimic the look. Oddly, this led to young girls
wearing lipstick in imitation of older women, in an effort to seem
more "mature."

== HERE STARTETH THE NEW STUFF ==

"[Desmond] Morris has proposed that lips are female genital mimics. To
some secondary degree, they may be, but first and foremost they are
blood flooded, exaggerated nursing organs. A woman with lipstick,
rather than having a flashing vulva, has a child's distended nurser.
And a tongue stuck through the lips in a 'French or soul kiss' is at
the same time a nipple and a penis. They have converged into a common
pattern. Sticking one's tongue out at an opponent is intimidating,
like a dilute penis display, but in early courtship it is a sexy
gesture."

Body Hot Spots: Automimicry: Big Boobs, Ruby Lips and Pendulous Noses 
http://employees.csbsju.edu/lmealey/hotspots/Chapter13.htm

"Desmond Morris has proposed that the everted red lips of humans are a
mimic of the genital labia. It is true that there are behavioral
associations between the female genitals and the mouth among different
primate groups, and there are colors in common - the blends of blues
and pinks. But the major differences in orientation and the lack of
eversion of the labia majora suggest that the uniqueness of the adult
everted and colored lips is a primarily neotenic trait, with only
secondary sexual aspects.

Waxing one's lips bright red, like powdering the face whiter than
baby-white, is a form of superstimulus where the original signal is
exaggerated to strengthen the response. These are cultural shortcuts
paralleling the evolutionary phenomena of social neoteny. Though they
are not neoteny, we can use them to analyze how and why social neoteny
has taken place.

At different times in history, depending on the spirit of the times,
women have capitalized on the clothes of the reproductively immature."

Body Hot Spots: Neoteny and the Naked Ape 
http://employees.csbsju.edu/lmealey/hotspots/Chapter20.htm

"The word labia means lips, of course, and human ethologists such as
Desmond Morris have proposed that women wear lipstick to emphasize the
resemblance between upper and lower labia, to recapitulate the lines
of the hidden genitals on the poster of the face."

Sleepygirl Archives
http://www.sleepygirl.org/sg/archives/2003_02.html

"Do our females have a bright red pouty lip or labia display of some
sort? Yes, in fact in order to look sexier they paint their oral lips
bright red. The human female lips are vastly more 'turned outwards'
than chimps or most other monkeys, in fact permanently pouting. Would
nature go so far as to place two large round plump mounds on her face?
Essentially 'No' though high round cheekbones, often emphasised either
by nature or rouge are considered attractive and both forms of cheek
show vascular reddening (blushing) during arousal."

The Emasculated Lemming
http://www.mens-network.org/wipLemming.pdf

"It would be nice to think that Morris's attempt to present a biology
of Man is meant as a joke, not to be taken seriously. Indeed the
author has obviously enjoyed writing it and judging by its success his
readers like it too. It is not difficult to see the secret of the
formula. Start out determined to shock and be unconventional (the
attitude that puts you on the side of the reader against the experts -
always a success this). Then make up a story about how the human race
may have evolved. Use this to produce an ingenious explanation of
human sexual habits and make this an excuse to fill nearly a quarter
of your book with a racy re-hash of Kinsey... Dr. Morris's favorite
theory is that breasts and red lips represent an ape turned back to
front."

The New York Review of Books: Monkey Business
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=11775

Google Web Search: "desmond morris" + "lipstick" + "labia"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22desmond+morris%22+lipstick+labia

You might find it interesting that Desmond Morris also believes that
women's large, rounded breasts evolved in mimicry of buttocks. Poor
Desmond. He sees sexy things and they always remind him of something
else.

Best regards,
pinkfreud

Researcher was very concerned that she meet my needs- even though I
wasn't offering much $$. Wonderfully thorough and entertaining
response.

As a life-long student of fashion history (which includes make up), I
have to agree with Pinkfreud. It is far more likely that women wear
lipstick (or orginally wore lipstick) to look younger and more
healthy. Just read 19th century beauty guides. At that time, lipstick
(and other make up) was thought deceptive, but magazines and books
still gave tips on how to make yourself look better. Among other
things, they taught that pinching your cheeks and biting your lips
before you entered into a room made you look young, radiant, and
healthy. In the 18th century, when wearing make up was more generally
accepted, the same truth applies; women were trying to cover up small
pox scars and make themselves look more healthy and young.

Kriswrite

You might check out this article and the works cited in the bibliography.
http://www.jolique.com/general_interest/evils_of_artifice.htm

Many thanks for the five-star rating and the nice tip!

~pinkfreud

when a woman becomes aroused her lips turn red and swell slightly, i
always thought that lipstick was mimicing this.