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Subject:
Science and Politics
Category: Science > Earth Sciences Asked by: llewellynwt-ga List Price: $20.00 |
Posted:
09 Feb 2004 13:30 PST
Expires: 16 Feb 2004 16:37 PST Question ID: 305094 |
How can the political right and left look at the same scientific data on environmental issues and come up with different explanations? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: ac67-ga on 09 Feb 2004 13:49 PST |
See this question: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=304458. It applies to this issue at least in part. But the bigger part is that you are mixing the political with the scientific. This inevitably leads to preconceptions and spin - from both sides. Further, the environment is such a complex web of interacting factors, with enough missing data, that it is difficult to say what effect a given change or factor will have with certainty. |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: kriswrite-ga on 09 Feb 2004 13:55 PST |
Primarily because the scientific data contradicts itself, depending upon which study you look at. Kriswrite |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: pinkfreud-ga on 09 Feb 2004 13:56 PST |
The old saying "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics" seems appropriate to this question. Environmental data are subject to so much distortion and juggling by politicians that the "facts" can be made to speak for almost any viewpoint. |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: delilah7b-ga on 09 Feb 2004 22:39 PST |
hi, from what i've seen much of the data recieved from analysis and experimentation is just data, and is open to interpretation. there is so much of it (and probably more that is not publically known) that it is hard to say overall. i don't think either side is flatly lying just distorting or emphisizing different points that coincide with their policies. its easy to see the motives and values a politician embraces based on which scientific evidence that person embraces, but thats not always the case. its more of an intellectual excersize i guess. i wish i knew which scientific data you were refering to, then i could we see which argument is made and who benefits. good luck, mar |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: poe-ga on 10 Feb 2004 04:38 PST |
Perspective. If fifty people witness an accident and the police interview each and every one of them, no two reports will be the same. |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: leoj-ga on 10 Feb 2004 07:02 PST |
Since you have specifically asked about environmental data, I think it is more than just as simple as because they can. Politicians are quite skilled in using available data to support their own positions. The right has an inherent interest in looking out for corporate interests, while the left is more centrally focused on social welfare. I think those are the 1 sentence descriptions for right and left, right? Okay, so if you are interested mainly in protecting the interests of Exxon-Mobile for example, when you look at data showing a bunch of noise and an upward trend of temperatures over the last 30 years, knowing that if the answer is going to hurt your constituents if this is global warming, what are you going to do? You are going to be the harshest examiner of the data and look for whatever flaws or uncertainties you possibly can to place doubt on that conclusion. To do otherwise would not serve your constituents. The left on the other hand looks at the possibility of global warming and says what is the worst case scenario. That instantly becomes what is going to happen, with absolutely no uncertainty, in their arguments. Why? Because they view their constituents are any who are unable to stand up for themselves, those who would be most affected by climate change. In this case, as in most, that is the lower classes. Oddly this logic is somewhat flawed in the case of climate change, since the ones who will lose the most are the ones with the most to lose, but that is clearly not perceived. So, yes, politics is the use of persuasion to achieve your means and that has little or nothing to do with accurate scientific analysis or decision making. We hope that good decisions are an outcome of the political process, but it really is just an occasional byproduct, not the primary goal. |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: ac67-ga on 10 Feb 2004 07:11 PST |
A big part of the problem is that the environment is such a web of interacting influences. If you want to determine if a given policy or action is good or bad, you have to weigh all the consequences of the action, which is usually impossible due to the complexity and the amount of unknown data. As a very simplistic example, consider the common question, "paper or plastic?". We always used to think, "use paper, it's recycleable". But plastic bags can be recycled also. The question is how often are they? I know people who use paper bags because they can be recycled, but then throw them in the trash where they go to a landfill. Another consideration with this decision though, is that to carry a given volume of groceries, the plastic needed is much smaller in weight and bulk than the paper needed. So using paper requires more truckloads of bags to be delivered per year, using more diesel fuel and creating more pollution. How do you balance these out? And it becomes even more complex when you start adding in non-environmental issues, such as jobs lost due to a policy change or international relations strained by a policy decision. If we had all the data and enough computing power and could make the decisions in a vacuum, i.e. unaffected by other political considerations, then it would be easy. Finally, all decisions have included value judgements. Everybody has their own beliefs on the relative values of achieving different things. If you believe that saving domestic jobs is more important than maintaining good relations with your neighbors, you will vote one way. If you think preserving the environment and protecting endangered species is more important you will vote a different way. That's the beauty of democracy - and its curse. |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: omniscientbeing-ga on 10 Feb 2004 09:04 PST |
llewellynwt-ga, Scientific data by itself says nothing--it is only a collection of information taken in context. This information is open to many different interpretations, and can be "shaped" into different things depending upon what one wishes to see. omniscientbeing-ga |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: peggy_bill-ga on 10 Feb 2004 13:52 PST |
Dear llewellynwt, I thought I would add my comments with the others. The reason the right and the left look at the same scientific data and come up with different answers is because they are giving policital answers not scientific ones. It is true that science primarily collects data. However, science doesn't just present data, nor does the data contradict itself. Science presents data in a context of a theory and an explanation. While there are often minority opinions, most of the time the scientific community has a relatively singular voice. For example, it is the opinion of the scientific community that evolution occurs and can be measured. There are, however, minority or even out-in-left-field opinions that differ with this general idea. Therefore, if you are a politician wanting to find scientific opinions that voice what you want, you can find it by looking at these minority voices. Science is supposed to look at the data and come up with the best explanation. Politics comes up with the explanation and then looks for the data to support it. Peggy bill |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: neilzero-ga on 14 Feb 2004 17:49 PST |
I have been looking at such issues for many years. The truth is likely close to the center on most of these topics. Earth's winters is likely about one degree c = 1.8 degrees f warmer (average) than a century ago. Most of this small amount of warming has probably occured in the last 40 years. The area covered by glaciers in the Northern hemiphere has decreased by about 1%. The average ocean level has not risen by a measureable amount. The ozone layer near Antarctica has grown larger by 1990, perhaps doubling the skin cancer risk for persons in southern Austraia and southern New Zeeland. I have not heard any recent reports, so the ozone hole may be closing. Likely these are all natural cyclic events with humans contributing about 1% of the change. Humans have however caused significant heath risks for ourselves and other criters by releasing polutants into our biosphere = air and water. Earth likely has more marginal crop land than a century ago, but we are destroying good cropland faster than we creating good cropland. The quality of our water supplies (almost everywhere) is decreasing inspite of large expenditures to make it safer Neil |
Subject:
Re: Science and Politics
From: neilzero-ga on 14 Feb 2004 18:05 PST |
That was suppose to read the hole in the ozone layer had grown Neil |
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