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Q: web site. As usual! ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   3 Comments )
Subject: web site. As usual!
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: pig-ga
List Price: $30.00
Posted: 19 Feb 2004 02:20 PST
Expires: 20 Mar 2004 02:20 PST
Question ID: 308273
Hi Scott, long time no write! I have recently had my web guy make some
changes to my site. He has added a few pages of content and therefore
I have been able to use the title headers and page text to try and get
some new search term phrases.

Over the past few days I have noticed phrases that I was coming up in
the top ten of world google have disapeared from view. these include
jazz band for wedding, which is a pretty important one for me.

My questions are: Is this just a blip or have I been spammed? If it is
a blip, any idea when the google bot is due round again? and finally
is my site configured well for search terms such as ...jazz band, jazz
for wedding, party band for wedding, jazz band for wedding, jazz band
for wedding party etc. I think it is and I just have to be patient.
Any opinion would be greatfully received.

Clarification of Question by pig-ga on 19 Feb 2004 10:45 PST
Oh, just realised, the site address is

Request for Question Clarification by justaskscott-ga on 19 Feb 2004 16:08 PST
Yes, it's been a while!  I hope you've been doing well since your last
question here.

As it happens, I've got some prior commitments to work on now.  If
you're willing to wait until some time next week, I'll be happy to
come up with some answers.  (I've heard about some changes to the
Googlebot; I'd just need to do a little research to get you accurate
and up-to-date information.)  But if you'd like a faster answer, you
might consider opening this question up to everyone.

In any event, it's up to you.

Clarification of Question by pig-ga on 19 Feb 2004 17:52 PST
Glad you remembered me. I shall be happy to wait until next week. I am
doing some gigs between now and next Tuesday so there is nothing I can
do until then anyway.

You have a good weekend and I shall wait for some "words of wisdom"
sometime after then. Regards Jeff.

Request for Question Clarification by justaskscott-ga on 28 Feb 2004 20:47 PST
I am so embarrassed -- I had so much to do this week that I completely
forgot to work on your question!

I suggest that you open this question up to the wider community so
that you can get a faster answer.  I still have a couple of days of
work to go; and the way things have been going, a couple of days may
turn into more.

Clarification of Question by pig-ga on 01 Mar 2004 15:42 PST
Fair enough Scott. How do I open it out to a wider group of people?
Subject: Re: web site. As usual!
Answered By: robertskelton-ga on 01 Mar 2004 19:01 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
Hi there,

I doubt that there is anything wrong with your site and its ranking in
Google search results, but there are a number of things that you can
do to improve the situation.

Although Google is constantly evolving, the visiting cycle of the
GoogleBot has remained fairly consistent: once a month.

The following cycle reflects how long it takes for a new link or
content to show up in search results (the dates are made up, as an
example only):

Less than one month to appear:

May 1 - Google updates index
May 1 - May 28 - Googlebot crawls the web and records what it finds
May 6 - You create a new webpage 
May 12 - GoogleBot visits your site
May 30 - Google updates their index with the new page included

More than one month to appear:

May 1 - Google updates index
May 1 - May 28 - Googlebot crawls the web and records what it finds
May 6 - GoogleBot visits your site
May 12 - You create a new webpage 
May 30 - Google updates their index with the new information from GoogleBot
June 1 - June 28 - Googlebot crawls the web and records what it finds
June 11 - GoogleBot visits your site, and sees the new page
June 30 - Google updates their index with the new page included
Some sites get visited every second day by the FreshBot, if they are
deemed worthy, but they are an exception.

I use a free service that lets me know exactly when each robot visits,
and I recommend it wholeheartedly:

Crawler Alert

Google's index was updated a couple of weeks ago. It did not include
the 3 new pages your site has. If they are more than 2 weeks old,
expect to see them in the next update, which could occur in the middle
of March, but you never know.

In the last few months Google have made their most radical changes to
search results ever. A lot webmasters saw their sites plummet from the
top ten to worse than #1000. Today I found that your ranking was:

jazz band for wedding - #22
jazz band - not top 30
jazz band for wedding party - #1
party band for wedding - not top 30

Regardless of your prior ranking, this is still pretty good. There are
many, many sites out there that would be a better match for "jazz
band" than your site. Your site is unlikely to be relevant to anyone
outside of the UK, for example. Even within the UK, there will be lots
of jazz bands or related businesses with websites.

Relevance aside, there are basic search engine optimization techniques
that can help your site to rank better...

META Keywords and Description
Forget about META keywords, they have been abused by webmasters for
years, and are all but ignored by good search engines. Leave them as
they are, and forget about them.

The META description is worthwhile. It can appear in search results,
and some directories will use it instead of writing their own
description. Make it a couple of sentences long, accurate &
descriptive of the content of the page. Try and write a different
description for each page of your site, and make the description
keyword-rich while still being readable and making sense.

Page Title
This is the most under-rated aspect of page design and SEO. Good
search engines like Google give a lot of weight to a page's title.
This is because, along with the domain name and file name, it is
visible to the public, and cannot contain many words. It is your
one-off chance to describe your site succinctly.

The closer your title fits a search query, the better it will rank.
Many webmasters make the mistake of jamming their title with keywords.
Not only is it ugly and useless for your visitors, it doesn't work as
well with Google.

Apart from search engines, titles are used when someone saves your
page as a bookmark/favorite, and the title is what someone sees in the
search results.


The above title is not going to attract many people to your site when
they see it in search engine results, nor will it inspire them when
they see it in their favorites folder.

- Try to keep each title to 2-4 words
- Make sure that the title reflects the content of the page
- Make sure the title phrase also appears somewhere on the page
- Use a different title for each page of your site
- Don't use all caps

For example, I would do the following for your home page:

TITLE: Jazz Bands for Weddings
IN THE PAGE TEXT SOMEWHERE: The agency specialises particularly in
jazz bands for weddings...

Quite simply, the more written content your site has, the more words
and phrases it has, and the higher the likelihood of your content
matching someone's search query. It is also possible that Google
determines that sites with more content are more likely to have useful
content that smaller sites.

If possible, make your site bigger. This page could become four pages:

Tell us more about each band. The same goes for venues. Each venue
could have its own page, with a photo (a photo of a jazz band at the
venue would be great) and a description.

Avoid unnecessary trickiness
On your homepage, the links at the bottom are very hard to see. Google
has a policy against this:

"Avoid hidden text or hidden links."

It is worthwhile reading all of Google's Webmaster Guidelines.

The following is repeated throughout your site. Personally I quite
like it from an aesthetic point of view:

"Swing. Soul Band. Jazz Band. Jump Jive. Music for Wedding. Jazz for
Wedding. Party Band for Wedding. Jazz for Reception. Jazz for Cocktail
Party. Jazz for Book Launch. Jazz for Store Opening. Jazz for Party.
Cool Jazz. Dixieland Jazz. Swing. Jump Jive Motown. Stax. Commitments.
Blues Brothers. Party Band. Frank Sinatra. The Rat Pack..."

However Google's search algorithm may decide that the repetition is
excessive, and ignore those words. I suggest keeping it on your
homepage, and removing it from the other pages - optimization works
best when each page of your site has different content.

Get Links
The power of Google is due to the importance it places on links.
Google counts links to a site as votes of usefulness and importance -
the more votes a page has, the higher it will rank.

Getting links is very difficult. Here are some tips:

- If you swap links, try not to do it very often. Less than 30% of
links pointing to your site should be reciprocal.
- Links from pages with a high PageRank are much more valuable to have.
- Sometimes if all the links pointing to your site use the same
wording, you can lose ranking. Where possible, make sure link text
- Getting listed in Yahoo, Open Directory (well done), Looksmart and can improve your ranking

If any of my answer is unclear, or if you have further questions on
this topic, just ask for a clarification and I'll get back to you.

Best wishes,

Request for Answer Clarification by pig-ga on 03 Mar 2004 03:15 PST
Hello Robert and thanks for your recent answer. I have looked through
it at length now and have had chance to digest it. You will know that
I have had some success with rankings and obviously I want to build on
this. Your answer throws up a few questions and if you have the time I
would greatly appreciate if you can make a few things clearer to me.

1/.How come I have been successful with "Jazz agency" and "Jazz band
for wedding party" but not "Jazz band" and "Jazz band for Wedding"?
(These words are all over the site like fleas!)

2/. What is your definition of the "meta description"? I am not
familiar with any technical terms so some clarification would help. I
think you mean the first descriptive paragraph on each page.

3/. You mention that you like the "bullet points" on each page: Swing
Jazz band, Soul band Rat Pack etc, but you say that having it on each
page could be perceived as repetitive and therefore it may be being
ignored. Would it still be seen as repetitive if I had different
bullet points on each page? As you will know I have used repetition
hoping to improve rankings through repeating cached phrases but I
realise it is a fine line!

4/. What changes have Google made that have had an adverse affect on
some of my past successes with certain search terms?

Finally let me thank you again for a very comprehensive and thoughtful
answer, I hope my questions for clarification are straight forward and
easy to reply to!Jeff Williams

Request for Answer Clarification by pig-ga on 03 Mar 2004 03:37 PST
Sorry, I left off one question clarification. With regards to the
title headers you recommend just using a few words ie: jazz band for

My technique, such as it is, is to fill the title headers hoping to
catch as many search terms my potential clients may punch in. An
example of this would be: "jazz swing lounge music band wedding party
reception music." My thinking behind this is I may strike lucky with a
number of combinations of search terms such as: Jazz band, Jazz band
for wedding, Lounge music for wedding party, jazz band for wedding
party, swing band for wedding reception. Am I wrong to go down this
route and if so why? Why will your suggestion work better? Thanks
again for your patience. Jeff

Clarification of Answer by robertskelton-ga on 03 Mar 2004 15:40 PST
Hi again,

1) The reasons you are ranking well for "Jazz band for wedding party" are:

- All the words are in the title
- All the words are in the page, near each other
- Your site's PageRank

Your page fulfils those criteria better than those ranked below you:

I believe that the following page would rank better than yours if they
simply had the phrase "wedding party" in their page text. Proximity of
keywords is important:

Regarding "jazz agency" - it's a great example of the power of having
keywords in your title. If you look for web pages that have "jazz
agency" in their title (as a phrase), there are very, very few for
Google to choose from:

When you don't rank as well, it's simply because in general there are
other pages that meet the criteria better.

2) Meta Description is part of the HTML code, and not visible to
someone visiting your site. Its purpose is to succinctly describe the
content of the page. Some search engines and directories use it, but
it won't noticably affect your ranking at Google.

How to Create a Meta Description Tag for Search Engine Optimization

3) Different bullet points on each page would work great. Some
repetition is fine, just not the same block of words on each page.

4) Google is constantly tweaking their algorithm. Factors that may
have caused your site to drop in ranking include:

- More opposition. With time more businesses are going online
- Opposition improving their websites
- Opposition getting more links pointing to their sites
- Sites linking to yours either disappearing or losing PageRank
- Google used to place much more emphasis on keywords within and
surrouding the text of links pointing to a page. If you had some links
to your site with your keywords in them, the value of those have
probably decreased

Nobody except for Google Engineers know the exact reasons, all the
rest of us can do is guess.

5) Every Search Engine Optimizer has a different opinion when it comes
to titles. Mine is based on running many websites and working as a
professional searcher. If you search for Blue Widgets, and there are
two pages that are exactly the same in every way, including incoming
links etc, but they have different titles:

Blue Widgets
Blue Widgets, Green Widgets, Yellow Widgets for Sale

... the shorter title will rank higher - because it more succinctly
fits the query. It also stands out more in the search results. If your
site consisted of just one page, then having many keywords in the
title might be the way to go. But the power of multiple pages is that
you can use each one to target a different keyword or phrase.

It is hard to gauge, because most optimizers cram the title full of
keywords, and because all the rest of their optimizing works, their
pages rank well.

(thanks for the 5 stars!)

Request for Answer Clarification by pig-ga on 04 Mar 2004 01:45 PST
Right Robert, thanks for the clarification. You have given me lots to
think about. I suspect the route I will go down is more pages
targeting individual search terms with each page focusing on one
specific area and cutting down on title headers, so a sample page may
have jazz bands or jazz band for wedding, soul band for wedding etc
focusing on each phrase that I anticipate potential clients will punch

Can I take this opportunity to thank you for the time and effort you
have put in to your work on my behalf. It was worth every penny. I
shall have no hesitation in recommending your services to others. Best
Wishes Jeff.

Clarification of Answer by robertskelton-ga on 04 Mar 2004 01:49 PST
Jeff, it was my pleasure, and a nice change from spammy sites trying
to make a quick buck. I hope your business prospers.
pig-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars

Subject: Re: web site. As usual!
From: spamfilter-ga on 23 Feb 2004 07:50 PST

Your webpages must be optimized to rank well... You must properly include your
kewords in the MEta Tags headers, description, body, and titles. Also
in the Images URL and so on. I can suggest one good software that
finds the keyword densitites and displays keyword counts. You can also
find your competition stats.
Subject: Re: web site. As usual!
From: majortom-ga on 23 Feb 2004 08:27 PST
Meta tags are ignored by modern search engines. Web designers figured
out long ago that they could pack them with whatever they thought
would improve their search ranking, without actually providing that
content or saying anything remotely similar in user-visible text.
Subject: Re: web site. As usual!
From: pig-ga on 01 Mar 2004 10:59 PST
Ok, but thats a shame. How do I open it out to other Google answerers?

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