Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: Mini review: FindForward ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Mini review: FindForward
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: j_philipp-ga
List Price: $8.00
Posted: 19 Feb 2004 10:46 PST
Expires: 20 Mar 2004 10:46 PST
Question ID: 308462
I would like to have a mini review of http://www.findforward.com

Please go through each search type selection and enter a search that
will result in something. You can skip adult search if you feel it's
inappropriate here. Please write your honest and if possible
constructive impression. No expert insight just a user perspective
needed here. I cancelled the original review question and switch to
what I call brainstorm stream-of-consciousness outsider mini review...
just write what you think. If possible, don't consult the help/ about
page, and if you misunderstand something just tell me. Thanks!
Answer  
Subject: Re: Mini review: FindForward
Answered By: omnivorous-ga on 19 Feb 2004 12:45 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Phillip --

First, the interface and instructions are clear, with likely search
categories popping to the top.  The instructions page is also clear
and straightforward.

A clear differentiator from other engines is the "Comments' or
feedback area.  I think that you should elevate it in visibility on
the results pages to encourage the wide range of feedback that would
develop a superior product (or even a product for a specific market
segment). It would also be wise to let users know what you do with
comments, whether simply using them to identify spam or to generate
comments on future searches that math.

That said, the pages are flat, text-oriented results -- much like
Google itself.  Some companies in the industry have been experimenting
with presentation of information in 3 dimensions as a way of showing
proximity or branches of research.


COMPARISONS
=============

I compared the search results for FindForward with the following three sites:
*  Google
*  MSN's beta search version
*  Alltheweb

To do so, I used a search for "Mooney Aircraft" -- being very familiar
with the category and because I run several owners' sites, including a
web ring.  Though this is only one narrow example of search, it's one
where I have a high level of familiarity with the types of information
that exists across the web.

One would expect the manufacturer in Kerrville, TX to come out at the
top of every search -- and it does for all four searches.   The number
of pages found by each are:
FindForward: 3,130
Google: 7,480
MSN: 2,447
Alltheweb: 16,938

There's a spam site called MetaTiki that the latest Google revision
has elevated to #2.  It uses a page redirect to a poor yellow
pages-type directory.  You also rank it second.  MSN has it fourth;
Alltheweb doesn't list it in the top 10.

Probably the 2nd ranked Mooney-related site should be the Mooney
Aircraft Pilots Association (MAPA), the leading owners' group.  Here's
where it ranks:
FindForward: #3
Google: #3
MSN: #2
Allthweb: #2

Note that researchers doing intensive searches may prefer to have
20-50 results listed for a quicker view of the "landscape" of a search
-- something that you're not offering.

As for the ads, Alltheweb highlights "aircraft for sale" at the top in
a way that's pretty intrusive.  However, Alltheweb has an interesting
news insert.  Your ads are for a couple of popular books on Mooneys --
though not the most-recent one published by Larry Ball.  Google has a
little wider range of related products in ads, including trade
publications.

As you might imagine, I have a pretty good idea where some of the
in-depth content is regarding these airplanes on the web.  All four of
the search engines do a pretty good job of identifying the major
Mooney maintenance and repair shops (Dugosh, LASAR, Midwest Mooney and
Top Gun Aviation).

However, these sites are the most content-rich.  An indicator below
shows how they score:

Mooney Caravan (not that this isn't in the DMOZ directory)
FindForward: not in top 100
Google: not in top 100
MSN: 44
Alltheweb: not in top 100

Mooney Aircraft Owner Events
FindForward: 19
Google: 18
MSN: 4
Alltheweb: 3


Mooney Junction
FindForward: 38 (sub-page)
Google: 19 (sub-page)
MSN: 18 (sub-page)
Alltheweb: 13 (sub-page)


Mooney Mite Site (also not in DMOZ)
FindForward: 44 (sub-page)
Google: 54 (sub-page)
MSN: 57
Alltheweb: 30 (sub-page)

Several things also come up in this comparative search:
*  Though Google Answers researchers often run across sub-pages and
use them to get relevant data, a normal user is confused by why a link
to a PDF of an owners manual should be ranked higher than a home page,
as in the example from the Mooney Mite Site.
*  Alltheweb has pages of separate links to an aircraft-for-sale site
that do nothing for a user.  All of the other search engines avoided
that.


IMAGE SEARCH
==============

An image search is another way to look at the reach of the search engines.

FindForward: nothing found.  Even just using "Mooney" only finds 23
images -- and of course many of these are people with the same last
name as aircraft designer Al Mooney.  The different sizing of pictures
is an awkward way to display images, which could easily be thumbnailed
for efficient scanning.
Google: 115 pictures
MSN: Microsoft keeps the image search well hidden (under Advanced
Search) and for good reason.  It doesn't work very well.  Checking the
"image" box brings up a list of pages with aircraft pictures -- but I
think most users expect to see image thumbnails.
Alltheweb: 101 pictures


When a similar search is done for video (MPEGs), the results are:
FindForward: no option for selecting video
Google: no option for selecting video (not even using MPEG extension
under the Image search)
MSN: finds pages with relevant videos, though it doesn't elevate their
visibility on the search results page.
Alltheweb: finds nothing


SOME OTHER COMMENTS
======================

The availability of a toolbar for people involved in intensive search
is a key.  I can't praise the Google toolbar highly enough -- for
giving me the ability to quickly do a site search; for highlighting
without going to the cache; for its very effective popup blocker.

Google does a poor job with framed pages in the cache; since you're
using Google's facility there you obviously do too.  Cached pages have
become very important to researchers; you might consider offering
links to past images from The Wayback Machine.

I'm surprised that you have Blogs and RSS Newsfeeds together.  The
ability to search news feeds is very important, particularly when
you're seeking a topical update (say, the details of the Alex
Rodriguez deal with the Yankees -- rather than ancient history on the
baseball team).  Also, it really doesn't seem to be picking up any
news -- only Blogs.

I hope that this helps in your evaluation of the search facility and
I'd be glad to answer questions or clarify anything that is unclear in
this Google Answer.

Best regards,


Omnivorous-GA

Request for Answer Clarification by j_philipp-ga on 19 Feb 2004 13:21 PST
Hi Omnivorous,

Great comments. Especially Wayback Machine (I might integrate it),
image thumbnails (though this won't be easy, if possible for me at
all).

Please clarify:

- Did you mean blogs and newsfeeds shouldn't be mixed like this? A
simple yes would be enough, I didn't quite get you.
- Could you give me an example of a framed page/ cache problem? I'm
not familiar or don't understand what you mean.

Thanks!

Clarification of Answer by omnivorous-ga on 19 Feb 2004 16:01 PST
Phillip --

Framed pages just don't appear, probably because the robot isn't sure
what content's supposed to be there.  An example is the 2nd or 3rd
item on the "Mooney Aircraft" search:
http://www.mooneypilots.com

I would absolutely separate blogs and newsfeeds: one I consider
personal and in need of verification; the other stands alone on the
reputation of their news organizations.  News feeds REALLY need good
caching, since most news organizations archive their content after
30-90 days.

Finally, I'm a technology marketing guy who believes that there's a
natural progression of segmentation of products.  In this way products
get adapted to specific uses and increase utility over time. Consider
how you can extend the range to databases missed by Google; or how you
can adapt your search tool to do specialized things (just as some
search tools do a better job of finding the MPEGs).

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA

Clarification of Answer by omnivorous-ga on 21 Feb 2004 05:48 PST
Phillip --

After sleeping on it for a couple of nights, I thought that a couple
of additional comments might be appropriate:
*  the "I'm feeling lucky" option is really not very useful.  People
starting a search can be grouped more effectively for what they're
seeking.  After all, that's why we use "news" or "image" searches. 
I'd describe the most-likely search types to be for:
   -- a home page
   -- information on a topic
   -- items to buy/sell
   -- news or information posted recently

The other thing that GA researchers commonly see is someone seeking
information about a person: phone number, address, obituary,
biographical information.

It might be helpful to structure search to get to these topics more effectively.

*  Google doesn't "see" the entire Google Answers database (though
search within the answers.google.com domain does find everything). 
You might consider how to expand the range of what's found there and
perhaps in other instances.

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA
j_philipp-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $2.00

Comments  
Subject: Re: Mini review: FindForward
From: respree-ga on 28 Feb 2004 06:08 PST
 
Hi Philipp:

I'm fairly impressed.  You wrote this by yourself?  Pretty awesome.

Been to a lot of search engines, but have never seen the filtering
options you offer anywhere.  I'd say you have something unique.

I did a search for "canvas transfers," a term I track pretty closely.

The results appear identical to G**gle, and am assuming your SERP is
based closely upon that.  Your search engine found 55K results, while
G found about 131K.  I'm wondering if the difference is 1) because
you've found a way to eliminate spammy results, blogs, forums, etc.
from the SERPS (if so, that would be a very unique accomplishment) or
2) because your index is not fully populated with G indexed pages.

I would love to see a search engine a tool that can optionally 'pass
moral judgement' on pages to eliminate stuff like blogs, forums, etc. 
More about it here:
http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=84f6e461bbc42d74ca28e9137b4f4be3&threadid=13376&perpage=10&highlight=blog&pagenumber=2

Also, you might want to update your http://findforward.com/about/
page.  I believe G has now indexed 4.3 billion pages (at this
writing).

Great work.  Keep it up.
Subject: Re: Mini review: FindForward
From: j_philipp-ga on 28 Feb 2004 15:57 PST
 
Thanks for the comments, Respree!

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy