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Q: Tracking IP addresses on elists ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Tracking IP addresses on elists
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: ancientdragon-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 01 Mar 2004 20:52 PST
Expires: 31 Mar 2004 20:52 PST
Question ID: 312532
Let's say I join an adult elist using a pseudonym. Is it secure?

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 01 Mar 2004 22:06 PST
ancientdragon-ga:

Please refer to my comments on your other (Hotmail) question. This
question has a similar answer, with the exception that the answer will
depend on the particular e-list or mailing list you join. Some list
bots will mirror your full information on any contributions you make
to the list, including your IP address. That makes you traceable.
Other list bots strip out any personally-identifiable information
before distributing your posts.

Generally, if your complete IP address is included in any
list-distributed post, then any other recipient of the post can track
the IP address down to the network to which that address belongs.
Depending on any identifiable information provided by that network
(for example, some networks 'name' their addresses by physically
identifiable information), a tenacious person may or may not be able
to find out who you are. If that person were involved in a criminal
investigation, they most definitely can find out who you are.

Again, please let me know whether this is the sort of information you
are seeking, so that I may post it as your Answer.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by ancientdragon-ga on 01 Mar 2004 22:34 PST
As in the other query this is about privacy. I don't want to be like
the little kid who thinks that because he covers his face he is
invisible. How can I tell beforehand if the list isn't going to give
me away withou having to know as much as you do about what I am
looking at?

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 01 Mar 2004 23:03 PST
The best way would be to use someone else's computer to set up a
disposable e-mail account (such as Hotmail), sign up for the list,
then look at the distributions from the mailing list to see whether
any of the e-mail headers are included when the posts are mirrored out
to the list recipients.

A great way to be able to use someone else's computer, is to go to
your public library, or go to an Internet cafe. Once you have signed
up for the list, and have received the first few posts, in Hotmail use
the 'View E-mail Message Source' feature to see the whole message
including the header. If, in your post, you see the 'Received from:'
field, then you have reason to be concerned, and I would suggest you
discontinue using that list.

Hope this helps!

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by ancientdragon-ga on 02 Mar 2004 20:50 PST
Does "If, in your post, you see the 'Received from:'field, then you
have reason to be concerned," mean if the field shows my actual IP
address or even just if the field is displayed at all?

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 02 Mar 2004 22:00 PST
The 'Received from:' field usually contains several bits of info that
are useful to someone trying to track down the source. First, the fact
that the Received from: field even exists means that the server that
received the e-mail, is configured to record who it received it from.
This might be just a relay server somewhere between your mail server
and the destination, but the fact that it is recording this
information means that it is logged somewhere. This is of course only
a concern if the logs are accessible.

As well, even if the actual IP address of the source is not provided
by the source e-mail server, often the source e-mail server itself is
still identified in a Received from: field. That information alone can
be enough for someone to suspect that you may be the originator of the
e-mail, if there are enough other clues. Using an e-mail service that
is NOT located in your local area helps a lot in this case.

Generally, though, if your IP address does not appear in the published
version of any submissions you send to a mailing list, you should be
OK. Just don't make any enemies on the list, especially ones who have
the technical know-how to hack into the list-server, and find out
where your posts are really coming from! Like I said in your other
question, it's only a matter of time and resources.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by ancientdragon-ga on 02 Mar 2004 23:31 PST
Please post your answer, aht.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Tracking IP addresses on elists
Answered By: aht-ga on 02 Mar 2004 23:57 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
I will also summarize this conversation as the Answer:

You asked whether it might be possible to track down the original
source location for submissions to online mailing lists. In the
clarification requests above, I mentioned:

---
Please refer to my comments on your other (Hotmail) question. This
question has a similar answer, with the exception that the answer will
depend on the particular e-list or mailing list you join. Some list
bots will mirror your full information on any contributions you make
to the list, including your IP address. That makes you traceable.
Other list bots strip out any personally-identifiable information
before distributing your posts.

Generally, if your complete IP address is included in any
list-distributed post, then any other recipient of the post can track
the IP address down to the network to which that address belongs.
Depending on any identifiable information provided by that network
(for example, some networks 'name' their addresses by physically
identifiable information), a tenacious person may or may not be able
to find out who you are. If that person were involved in a criminal
investigation, they most definitely can find out who you are.

---

To protect your identity while scoping out any new mailing list for
possible privacy concerns, I had the following suggestion:

---
The best way would be to use someone else's computer to set up a
disposable e-mail account (such as Hotmail), sign up for the list,
then look at the distributions from the mailing list to see whether
any of the e-mail headers are included when the posts are mirrored out
to the list recipients.

A great way to be able to use someone else's computer, is to go to
your public library, or go to an Internet cafe. Once you have signed
up for the list, and have received the first few posts, in Hotmail use
the 'View E-mail Message Source' feature to see the whole message
including the header. If, in your post, you see the 'Received from:'
field, then you have reason to be concerned, and I would suggest you
discontinue using that list.
---


Finally, to your clarification regarding the information in the
'Received from:' field, I added the following information:

---
The 'Received from:' field usually contains several bits of info that
are useful to someone trying to track down the source. First, the fact
that the Received from: field even exists means that the server that
received the e-mail, is configured to record who it received it from.
This might be just a relay server somewhere between your mail server
and the destination, but the fact that it is recording this
information means that it is logged somewhere. This is of course only
a concern if the logs are accessible.

As well, even if the actual IP address of the source is not provided
by the source e-mail server, often the source e-mail server itself is
still identified in a Received from: field. That information alone can
be enough for someone to suspect that you may be the originator of the
e-mail, if there are enough other clues. Using an e-mail service that
is NOT located in your local area helps a lot in this case.

Generally, though, if your IP address does not appear in the published
version of any submissions you send to a mailing list, you should be
OK. Just don't make any enemies on the list, especially ones who have
the technical know-how to hack into the list-server, and find out
where your posts are really coming from! Like I said in your other
question, it's only a matter of time and resources.
---

Today, given the growing public concern over spam and 'online
predators', many e-mail service providers are taking steps to ensure
that e-mails sent through their servers are both legitimate, and
traceable (or, at least, as traceable as possible). True spammers use
nefarious techniques to try to avoid these measures, meaning that the
measures become stricter and stricter over time. This impacts the
privacy of the honest users; a small price to pay in the war against
spam and online abuse.

I hope this information was also helpful to you!

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher
ancientdragon-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $3.00
That's it, just what I needed.  Thx.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Tracking IP addresses on elists
From: aht-ga on 03 Mar 2004 09:28 PST
 
Glad to have helped, and thank you for the tip!

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