![]() |
|
![]() | ||
|
Subject:
Physical growth in hypogonadal individuals.
Category: Science > Biology Asked by: musico-ga List Price: $20.00 |
Posted:
03 Mar 2004 21:10 PST
Expires: 02 Apr 2004 21:10 PST Question ID: 313195 |
Hello! There has been many talks about the fact that prepubertal castration (or inherited hypogonadism), both in humans and other animals, are often associated with prolonged physical growth wich often lead to gigantism later in life. This is because epiphyses in the longbones fail to close due to abscense of sex hormones during puberty. The famous Italian castrati singers of the past (17th - 19th century) were often reported to reach unusual heights and especially striking proportions were the longbones in the arms and legs were unproportionally long. However, what is the exact mechanisms behind all this? Does prepubertal hypogonadism really lead to uncontrolled and continuing growth? What are the factors worth considering here? Did castrati really continued to grow all their lifes?? An invistigation done by German medics in 1910 on the Rumanian skopzy sect showed that one individual castrated at 8 years of age, even at 35 had open epiphysis and thereby continued to grow! This was collaborated by other studies (Male soprano Javier Medina from Mexico, hypogonadal since childhood, finally managed to stop his growth at 33 only after taking hormones). However, many castrati singers still were of average or even lesser height even in old age. How is this possible? What can studies on animals tell us about this? If these individuals really ever ceased to grow, then at what age and what point in life? Why did they (if they ever did) cease to grow if there is no hormones to close the epiphysis? Other factors apart from male/female hormones that can end the growth of the skeleton? Anything else worth mentioning? |
![]() | ||
|
There is no answer at this time. |
![]() | ||
|
Subject:
Re: Physical growth in hypogonadal individuals.
From: alkali-ga on 30 Mar 2004 21:14 PST |
Fabulous question, Musico. The castrati are a fascinating part of social, medical and music history. I heard a recording of Alessandro Moreschi, the "Last Castrato" when I was studying music in university, and I have been fascinated with the phenomenon ever since. Your grasp of physiology is pretty good, but you are missing a very straightforward explanation for both the fact that some castrati did not grow excessively, and for the individual variation in heights amongst them. You are probably correct that epiphyseal closure is mediated by the sex hormones, but that is a drastic oversimplification of the process. First off, the castrati were not without sex hormones! That may come as a surprise to you, but it is true. Many other parts of the body are capable of producing and releasing sex hormones into the body, for example the adrenal gland and even fat cells. After the surgical removal of the testicles, the amount of sex hormone production increases. If the testicles are removed before puberty, as was the case for most castrati, there is little change in the hormonal miliieu, at least as regards things that affect epiphyseal closure. Once puberty is reached, however, the production from the hypothalamus Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) is not necessarily impaired. Neither is the response of the pituitary gland to this substance, resulting in the production from the pituitary of the sex-hormone-releasing-hormones, called follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) which act on the tissues of the body to produce the sex hormones. This is the mechanism of puberty. Now, while the adrenal gland and other tissues tend to be relatively resistant to stimulation by FSH and LH, at least as compared to the testicles, there is some evidence that these tissues increase their production of sex hormones in the absence of the gonads. Part of that may be related to increased sensitivity to LH and RH. Even more importantly, the castrati did not depend solely upon the adrogens (for example: testosterone) produced in their (now missing) testicles for closure of their epiphyses. Oh no! If that were the case, then women, with relatively lower concentrations of androgens compared to men could be expected to tower over men by age twenty or so. Obviously, that doesn't happen. Estrogens are not only capable of mediating epiphyseal closure, but they are produced (in the form of 17 beta estradiol) FROM the androgens. Additionally, the same tissues that produce androgens in the castrated male also produce estrogens. It is a little known fact (outside of the medical profession) that men and women both have circulating estrogens and androgens. So the castrati might have has lower levels of circulating sex hormones, but they were far from having none at all. There would certainly be expected to be individual variation in the levels of sex hormones among castrati, and that alone could account for the fact that some of them grew to apparently normal heights, and some were taller than expected. but there is another reason they didn't keep growing: growth hormone! While the presence of sex hormones may force epiphyseal plates to close, leaving them open, by itself, does not ensure continued growth. For growth to occur, growth hormone must be present. Luckily for most castrati, levels of growth hormone decrease throughout life. Otherwise more of them would probably have suffered from gigantism. Growth Hormone (GH) is produced by the pituitary in response to a substance released from the hypothalamus called Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH). It is GHRH that decreases after puberty, resulting in a decrease in GH production, rather than some innate tendency of the pituitary. Not only that, but the hypothalamus puts out another substance, called Somatostatin, that is a potent inhibitor of pituitary GH production, and its concentration INCREASES after puberty. This is a mechanism that really puts the brakes on growth after puberty. It has probably evolved because the consequences of unrestricted growth are so severe. People who suffer from gigantism (excessive GH with unclosed epiphyses) have a lot of health problems. Autopsies on people who were castrated before puberty might very well show open epiphyses in some cases, up to almost any age at death. Just because the epiphyses were open, however, doesn't mean these people were still growing; only that they had the POTENTIAL to grow. Thanks for the interesting question! Alan Kali |
Subject:
Re: Physical growth in hypogonadal individuals.
From: alkali-ga on 30 Mar 2004 21:36 PST |
Google answers doesn't have a "Preview" button (hint, hint Google) so I cannot look over the finished product. I always find errors when I read a long post after I hit the button. Here they are. Errata: Paragraph 3 should clarify that sex hormone production OVERALL does not increase after castration, but sex hormone production from non-gonadal tissues increases, sometimes quite drastically. Paragraph 5 omitted to mention that the hormonal antecedents of puberty, including production of GnRH, FSH and LH occur during the time of puberty whether or not the gonads are present to respond to them. While the outward sings of puberty may be absent, the internal mechanism continues. In fact, antecedant hormone levels may be drastically INCREASED since the normal feedback inhibition by the sex hormones does not occur. Like revving an engine in neutral. Paragraph 6 should end. "... to LH and FSH". LH is a commonly used medical abbreviation for "left hand" in addition to standing for Luteinizing Hormone. I guess I got carried away and wrote RH (the medical abbreviation for "right hand") out of sheer force of habit. That's all. Alan Kali |
Subject:
Re: Physical growth in hypogonadal individuals.
From: musico-ga on 03 Apr 2004 05:25 PST |
Thank you, Alan, for this wonderful and thoughtful explanation; I believe you indeed managed to take up almost everything our medical science knows about this topic up to date. Of course, there is still some things we might be unaware of, as no particular growth-study has been made on these individuals. Anyway, we can still try to experiment with what we know, and use our own immagination in order to shade some light on the matter. Basically, if I remember correct, the shortest castrati were often plumpy and feminine, whilst those higher were often more "masculine" in appearance. This was the case with Moreschi (short; plumpy) and many others. What it could then tell us, as you also point out, is that those castrati who were overweight, and whoes fatcells produced a lot of estrogen (wich often lead to development of the breast tissue), led to that the estrogen might either supress HG or end the growth of the bones on a permanent level. However, I feel that your statement that the HG falls during puberty in all sexes doesn`t take into consideration the feedback mechanism that exists between estrogen>testosteron>HG. Also, what about the "prepubertal-dip" phenomena? Excessive growth during puberty is triggered by the rise in sex hormones, wich also put an end to the growth and what I believe, suppress the HG production. Well, anyway, many thanks for your very useful explanation! I now believe I have a better insight into the subject; I am also pleased to have some of the statements I previously learned of a "heresay" confirmed by you. Sincerely, Muscio-ga. |
Subject:
Re: Physical growth in hypogonadal individuals.
From: alkali-ga on 03 Apr 2004 09:39 PST |
Musico, Growth is really complicated, and I have certainly oversimplified. I didn't approach the "growth spurt" in castrati because I have no idea if it occurred. We're getting into an area where knowledge is scanty. You can't really do an experiment to see what happens when children reach puberty without sex hormones; it would be unethical in the extreme. We have to extrapolate from the history of the castrati and current information about people with hormonal disorders. One thing I am fairly sure of is that you don't require sex hormones to shut down growth hormone production after puberty. If you did, then all people with a lack of sex hormones would develop gigantism (if their epiphyses stayed open) or acromegaly (if their epiphyses closed). This is certainly not the case. The somatic-hypothalamic-pituitary feedback mechanisms are terribly complex in normal indivduals. Introducing an abnormality further complicates matters. Until musical tastes (and certain legal, ethical and social principles) change drastically, we are left without a population to study. Until then, there is necessarily an element of speculation in this area. Alan Kali |
If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you. |
Search Google Answers for |
Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy |