Sorry long question..
I purchased a Tiny computer in March 2001 (UK Store) £1100, on a pay
within 9 months option, or undertake a credit agreement if not paid in
full within the said time limit. The credit interest rates were
outlandish; I had full intentions of paying in full before the 9
months were up. Anyhow I took delivery; the pc was faulty, modem fault
amongst other things. At the time of purchase I agreed to their on
site warranty, but the phone number was forever engaged, after 2 days
of trying I had no option but to call their premium cost help line.
After 5 minutes on the phone they could not help, but promised someone
would get back to me. They never did, so after 5 days, out of
frustration I promptly returned the pc to the store and plonked on
their desk, and told them to stick the pc where the sun don’t shine, I
don’t want it anymore.
About a week later they had no trouble contacting me, very apologetic,
mix up in communications blah blah and they would refund my on-site
warranty, and the pc is fixed, it is our entire fault the modem was
faulty etc etc. Stupidly I accepted the pc back, it was worst. I
emailed Tiny, I wrote to Tiny I tried to phone Tiny (impossible)
Anyhow eventually, I wrote cancelling all agreements and to collect
the pc.
They didn’t call to collect, (they didn’t even reply) I instructed my
bank to cancel DD when it became due, I wrote to the finance company
explaining why I was stopping the DD.
Now today Tiny’s finance company First National tricity finance, are
demanding £2430 otherwise they will take me to court. Is there nothing
I can do but pay up?
Tricity finance has told me my complaint is with Tiny?

Hi quicklink,

This answer is not offered as legal advice. In fact, I recommend you
consult a lawyer because the experience of others suggests that your
problem might be sorted out quickly by having a lawyer send a letter.

Many smaller legal firms offer a free first consultation, or perhaps a
weekly surgery to which you can just "turn up". At the first
consultation, they will listen to your story, let you know if they
believe you have a strong case, and give you an idea of how much it
will cost if you instruct them to proceed. The cost will surely be
small compared to the £2430 which the finance company is demanding
from you.

Alternatively, you could visit your local Citizens Advice Bureau. They
give advice on many subjects including legal matters. You can find
your local CAB here:

Search for a bureau - NACAB
http://www.nacab.org.uk/cabdir.ihtml

jeremymiles-ga suggests that you look through back issues of "Which?"
magazine at your local library. This may provide you with some
comfort, as you will see how others have obtained refunds fron Tiny,
or had their finance agreement with with First National Tricity
cancelled. I refer you specifically to the following back-page
articles:

"A rejected rejection claim". Which? (January 2002)
A buyer tried to take his computer back to Tiny, who refused to accept
it. First National Tricity then threatened the buyer with court
action. After receiving a letter from a lawyer, Tiny issued a refund
and arranged for the credit agreement to be cancelled:

"A package of problems". Which? (June 2002)
A buyer couldn't get his Tiny computer to work properly, and was
unhappy with technical support offered by Tiny. He returned the
computer to Tiny, and Tiny terminated the finance agreement:

"Tiny computer causes big problems". Which? (February 2000)
A buyer was unsatisfied with his Tiny computer, and returned it. Tiny
asked him to collect it, and when he would not collect it Tiny sold
it. After receiving a letter from a lawyer, Tiny arranged to cancel
the agreement with the finance company:

As andrewsm-ga points out in the comments, Tiny went into receivership
in January 2002 and its assets were bought up by Time Group:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/24612.html

There are also case studies in Which? Magazine about customers of
Time. The outcomes were similar to the outcomes for customers of Tiny:

"Time's fast modem runs slow". Which? (March 2000)

"Time takes two years to put computer problem right". Which? (March
1998)

Although the receivership of Tiny complicates your situation, you may
find the following case study helpful:

"Blown out by HP company". Which? (December 1999)

That case study relates to a car rather than a computer, and the
outcome suggests that the hire purchase company is legally responsible
for ensuring that the item purchased is of a satisfactory quality and
fit for its purpose.


Additional resources:

If your local library doesn't have "Which?" magazine, you can browse
the articles on a 30-day free trial at "Which?" online (a credit card
number is required for the free trial).

"Which?" online
http://www.which.net/

The relevant legislation is the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)
and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Trading Standards has a wide range of downloadable leaflets about
consumer rights, sale of goods, etc:
http://formby.wiganmbc.gov.uk/pub/ehcp/ts/Leaflets/index.htm


Google search strategy:

"Citizens Advice Bureaux" uk
://www.google.com/search?q=%22Citizens+Advice+Bureaux%22+uk

"tiny computers" time receivership
://www.google.com/search?q=%22tiny+computers%22+time+receivership


Good luck with getting your refund!

Regards,
eiffel-ga

I so wish your dispute was here in the Colonies!!  We have so many
good remedies for you under our Uniform Commercial Code as well as the
various Consumer Protection Acts that have been adopted.

Breach of Express Warranty?  Breach of Implied Warranty of
Merchantability?  Fraud.

Tricity may have a point, but in the States a finance company MAY be
liable if they have knowledge of the mis/malfeasance of Tiny.

I have to believe that the amount of money at risk warrants hiring a
barrister to lend a hand.

Best of luck!

Listern Brav, 

Your problem seems to be quite straight forward, You brought a
computer from Tiny, they gave you a faulty non-functional computer
there for by the law of the country you are able to return the item
for a  full refund.

Even though you accepted it for the second time it was still not fit
for its purpose and therefore the same condiction would apply. I would
seek free legal aid in your area.

I know this cos my friend purchased a laptop of this Di**head in
London, and one of the pixcels on the screen was not working, he would
not return or refund the money. I know 1 pixcel is really small, but
when you pay 2k for somthing you expect everything to be working.
Anyhow after consultation for the legal place which is free of charge,
we were told to produce a letter to them and we did so, they shop
SH**ed and exchanged the Laptop straight away, just remember you are
entitiled to your money back if you don't want an other computer..

Laters i am off

Hi quicklink,

My first PC was from TINY and I too had problems, this was way back in
1996, (ish) and I had problems with support.  However in the end I
sorted it all out with  them. I complained how their support had been
poor (to be polite) and eventually got a whole bundle of software as
compensation. TINY is now BIG (pun intended) I'm sure there is
something in UK consumer law that says if the goods don't do what they
say (ie. defective) you are entitled to 100% refund, and if you told
them to come and take it away ( and you can prove it) you are on good
ground.  I can't comment on consumer law, but there are alot of
excellent researchers who I'm sure will be able to help.
Keywords to look for are:

"Consumer rights"
"defective goods"
"return of goods"
within the .uk  domain

Good Luck

THX1138

(of course this is my personal opinion and is no substitute for legal
advice of a professional in UK consumer law)

In a similar situation three or four years ago I found that starting
proceedings in the small claims court brought a speedy resolution with
full refund: the company knew perfectly well that they were in the
wrong and didn't want it to get to court.  I think the amount of money
involved in your case may be too big for small claims but your local
county court would advise how you could start off the paperwork for
small or bigger claims.
I strongly suggest you go to the Citizens Advice Bureau for help - see
your local phone book for the nearest branch or go to
http://www.nacab.org.uk/.  They will give you clear facts on your
rights and might well help you find free or cheap legal advice.
For the sake of future shoppers (and revenge?) contact your local
Trading Standards Officer (phone book in Council listings).  If they
are aware of any firm making a habit of dodgy dealings they will
follow up.
I do hope you can get this sorted out fairly quickly - I know how
stressful it can be.

Go to your local library and find the back copies of the magazine
"Which?"  On the back cover are cases of different sorts (many similar
to yours) where there lawyers have sorted the problems out.  At the
end of each one it says "Point of law: ..."

You should be able to get a fairly clear statement of the law from
here.

(You can subscribe and read them online at www.which.net.)

jeremymiles-ga

Hi,

This is a very tricky problem. Firstly as I'm sure you know, Tiny have
gone bankrupt and been taken on by Time Computers, which make life a
bit tricky.

Also you haven't mentioned if they ever took the PC back or you had
any proof that about your communications with tiny, e.g. sending a
letter by recorded delivery. Unfortunalty the law appears to be on the
side of the retailer in these cases, and you really have to fight and
have ample proof that the retailer is in the wrong. If you can answer
the questions above i can give you more advice. I've been there before
so know the score, but depending on time scales and documents the
outcme can be vastly different!

cheers

A

** Tricity finance has told me my complaint is with Tiny? **

Unless it explicitly says this in your finance agreement, then they
are wrong. Technically, when you obtain credit, it is the credit
company who bought the computer. Since dealing with Tiny has not
worked, you are well within your legal rights to refuse to pay the
credit company.

These points are covered in the following legal Acts:

* Sale of Goods Act 1974 (recently revised, AFAIR)
* Consumer Credit Act

You can certainly sort this out without lawyers. You have two distinct
points in your favour:

* Service _below that which is legally required_
* You do not own the computer, the credit company does!

You are within your rights to terminate your agreement with the credit
company and let them sort out getting the money back for the computer.
It is their problem. They will, however, try to threaten you into
action, but you have a pretty strong case here.

Of course, the rule is not to use this sort of finance in the future,
and stick to safe old credit cards!

I don't know if this qualifies as an answer, but I think it would be a
good idea to sick the Maximum PC WatchDog onto Tiny.  MaxPC Mag gets
hundreds of people with problems EXACTLY LIKE YOURS.  Visit
www.maximumpc.com and click on CONTACTS.  On the page, you will find
the e-mail address watchdog@maximumpc.com where you can mail MaxPC and
get them to sick the Dog on Tiny.  Most people start their letters
"Dear Dog:" (in case you've never read their magazine).  I sure hope
you get a chance to stick that tiny computer up Tiny's even smaller
[place where the sun don't shine].  Good luck to you!

Kick butt. Write to papers, arrange a demonstration outside the office
with other disgruntled users. Call news media. The country will know..
and they will be made to suffer greatly. :)