If you are on a deep sea platform, how can you best create H2 gas so
as to be burned in a combustion engine style generator.  Either by a
chemical proccess, a more efficent less expensive and even a renewable
fuel source.  This would be to create power for operational uses. The
idea of the proccess would make a more cost effective (in the long
run) way of producing energy when you are surrounded by water that can
be easily turned into near pure H20.  Machine costs are irrelivant,
solar panels can be used in moderation but not too many.  Also if
something like normal diesel or any petro is used the idea would be to
make the same volume of fuel last alot longer then it normally would.

The hypothetical situation that you propose lends itself readily to
the production of hydrogen for conversion to energy storage and
electrical power generation. All of the mechanical components are
commercially available, as are the raw materials or energy sources
that would provide the resources from which the generated electrical
power ultimately would be produced.

There are a number of ways to produce hydrogen, but in the stated
circumstances, a plentiful source of water, the proven electrolytic
hydrogen generator, which fractures water molecules into hydrogen and
oxygen through the introduction of a strong electrical current, is
probably the best solution. This technology has been available for
decades, and complete, self-contained hydrogen generators can be
purchased for the production of almost any volume of gas. All that is
required for the process is pure water and electricity.

Water is a given of the problem, and pure water, a necessity for the
hydrogen generator, can be obtained in sufficient quantities through
desalination. Electricity the other necessary input is, of course,
also the desired end product; once the process has been started, the
generator can drive the desalinator and the hydrogen generator, but
there must be an initial source of electricity. Electricity to prime
the process can be derived from a number of schemes. One obvious means
to produce the start-up electricity is the end generator itself,
fueled either with gasoline, diesel, propane, or prepared bottled
hydrogen. Another means of producing electricity would be, as implied
in the hypothetical situation, solar cells. A third means would be
wind power. A fourth source would be the ocean itself, either through
the conversion of the kinetic energy of the waves and tides or of
thermal difference. Probably the most attractive option would be a
wind powered generator with battery, solar, and propane generating
backups.

Depending upon the situation, the end generator can be powered with a
traditional fuel that is supplemented by hydrogen, or it can be fueled
by hydrogen alone. In a mixed fuel arrangement, the consumption of
traditional fuel reasonably can be halved by the addition of hydrogen
to the air intake. The one obvious advantage of this method is that
the generator is not completely dependent upon the hydrogen production
system: in case of some interruption of the hydrogen generator's
output, e.g., during required maintenance, power generation can
continue. Another advantage is that the electrical generator's engine
requires no modifications to its carburetor to operate on the mixed
fuel. A converted electrical generator, however, is feasible, and if
one has enough storage capacity for the hydrogen fuel to bridge any
down time for the hydrogen generator, then it has the advantage of
being independent of any outside fuel supply. The system becomes
virtually self-sufficient. Almost any traditionally fueled engine can
be converted to run on propane, and almost all propane-fueled engines
will run equally well on hydrogen.

GENERAL DISCUSSION

Hydrogen Appliances
http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hydrogengeneration.html

"Thinking 'hydrogen' is a natural solution for power storage IF the
initial power comes from renewable or low cost power generation
sources. Wind, solar, hydro or Diesel gensets that make electricity
while making hot water are all good candidates for a hydrogen gas
energy storage system, otherwise called an H2 gas generator."
[...]
"Hydrogen generators produce hydrogen and oxygen through the
electrolysis of water, following the chemical equation: 2H2O + Energy
--> 2H2 + O2

This chemical transformation occurs in an electrolytic cell.  If the
cell is exposed to any flow of electrical current it starts the
process of electrochemical separation of water molecules into its two
components namely oxygen and Hydrogen.

These two gases are emitted from the electrodes and are separated and
captured in the electrolytic cell. The gases are then made available
for use as they pass through a back flash valve, water trap and
dehumidifier on their way to any one of many hydrogen powered
appliances."
[...]
"For use in gen-sets simply adjust the throttle and get the motor up
to half speed using it's intended fuel type and then adding a small
amount of metered hydrogen gas (H2) into the air cleaner so that the
gen-set revs up to full throttle. The addition of H2 gas into the air
cleaner gives plenty of clean burning power without the problems of
running pure H2 fuel. Don't forget to install the obvious gas cut off
solenoids in case the motor stalls."

Hydrogen To Electricity Converters
http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/generate.html


Generator Propane Conversion Kits
http://www.propanecarbs.com/


HYDROGEN GENERATORS

TITAN
http://www.teledyneenergysystems.com/titan.asp

"The TELEDYNE TITAN series hydrogen/oxygen gas generators utilize the
principle of water electrolysis to produce high-purity gases (to over
99.9998%) at useable pressures."
[...]
"Our H_2 Oasis Hydrogen Gas Station integrates a complete hydrogen
production and storage system into a convenient, easy to install and
commission portable all-weather building."

Hydrogen Generators
http://www.stec-inc.co.jp/products_e/opgu/

"Produces Hydrogen by the electrolysis of water using a solid polymer
electrolyte.(Gas Purity better than 99.999%)"


Chrysalis II Hydrogen Generator
http://www.matheson-trigas.com/mathportal/_pdfs/litcenter/specequipmentdatasheets/Chrysalis%20Standard%20Economy%20Hydrogen%20Generator.pdf

"The Chrysalis II ?SEPG? (Standard Economy Purified Gas) Hydrogen
Generator employs the newest membrane technology available for
electrolytic production of pure hydrogen gas and is ideal for
operation with gas analyzers, as fuel gas for flame tools or as a
source of pure hydrogen in plasma chambers and other isolated
environments."


WIND TURBINES

WTIC - manufacturer of the Jacobs wind systems since 1986
http://www.windturbine.net/

Hybrid Power Plant
http://www.windturbine.net/Hybrid%20Power%20Plant.htm

"The Class 'A' hybrid power plant is a complete electrical power
supply system that can be easily configured to meet a broad range of
remote power needs. There are three basic elements to the system - the
power source, the battery, and the power management center (Energy
Minder).  The power source may be a wind Turbine, engine generator, or
solar arrays.  Any combination of up to three power sources may be
used."

Bergey Windpower Company
http://www.bergey.com/


OCEAN ENERGY

Chapter 14: Ocean Energy
http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/chapter14.html

"There are three basic ways to tap the ocean for its energy. We can
use the ocean's waves, we can use the ocean's high and low tides, or
we can use temperature differences in the water. Let's take a look at
each."


DESALINATION

Desalinators
http://www.seafresh.co.uk/desalinators/desalinators.htm

"The OCEAN series with outputs from 15 litres/hour to 126 litre/hour
which are ultra simple machines for use only in ocean water far away
from coasts, and are similar in operation to the SH20 .

The TON range producing from 10m^3 per 24 hours upwards.  Please apply
to Seafresh for professional advice regarding this product."


FCI Watermakers Neptune
http://www.great-water.com/pages/A2W_FCI/FC-Neptune.shtml

"The Neptune Series of reverse osmosis watermakers can be found
throughout the world. They satisfy the fresh water needs of yachts,
workboats and commercial fishing vessels, as well as land-based
facilities such as hotels and private residences."

"Systems from 1000 to 4000 Gallons per Day. All systems feature the
UROC - Universal R.O. Control system with advanced user friendly
control that can be customised to suit your application."


Any scheme will include AC/DC (bi-directional) energy conversion.

DC/AC POWER INVERTERS (300-5000W)
http://www.analyticsystems.com/inverters.htm

"Run 120V or 220 Volt AC equipment from 12V, 24V, 32V, 36V, 48V or 72
VDC batteries in an industrial environment where standard AC power is
not available. Analytic Systems produces four types of inverters
converting DC to AC; a Q'Sine series, a Pure Sine Series, and a
high-powered IVQ and IVS Series. providing up to 5000 Watts of power.
They are ideal for general industrial use and for automotive / mobile
applications such as emergency vehicles and marine, land and aircraft
applications requiring high reliability."


SEARCH TERMS

://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=hydrogen+generator+electrolytic&btnG=Google+Search
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=wind+turbine&btnG=Google+Search
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=ocean+wave+turbine&btnG=Google+Search
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=desalinator&btnG=Google+Search

hlabadie-ga

A little more on the technical readings would have been nice. ie:
efficency ratings, machine outputs.  Also more information about the
sustainability of H2 and how practical H2 would be for an energy
source compared to current methods.

macman_84-ga,
Algae and Sunlight!
www.h2net.org.uk/PDFs/Prod2001/H2NetFRH.pdf
Regards
ldavinci-ga

Hi macman_84-ga,

  I would like to comment a bit on the response of hlabadie-ga.
I don't understand the "priming" method and how it is going to produce
excess energy, than the energy produced by the solar cells!. Am I incorrectly
interpreting the law of conservation of energy(except for nuclear energy)?.
Essentially the energy that could be derived of hydrogen will be limited
to a theoretical max of that achieved at the source(i.e. solar/tidal/wind
energy generated(solar being the inefficient but reliable and cheap(initial
investment)). Also storing of hydrogen could be an issue. I do understand
that electrolysis could be close to 100% efficiency since there is not much
generation of heat, but the fact that the electricity used is coming from
a source which is far less efficient, the overal efficiency cannot be anywhere
close to even 50%. Desalination could be achieved with simple use of sunlight
with concentrators and by means of steam distilliation, or more efficiently
through reverse osmosis(at the cost of replacing the membrane one a while).
It is possible to determine the best method, only if you know beforehand
on the peak and sustained operational energy needs of the platform.

Regards
ldavinci-ga

The amount of energy that is derived from hydrogen is less than that
input. The "priming" is the amount of energy that is required to start
the process and then to keep the balance. Thus, the need for either
the alternate or the conventional source of energy, i.e., wind, fossil
fuel, etc.

In general, once the process has been started, the system (counting
all sources) can be self-sufficient. That does not mean that it is a
perpetual motion machine.

The question, being general in nature, seems to be amenable to a general answer.

hlabadie-ga

macman_84-ga is clearly asking for a net source of energy. That does
imply a perpetual motion machine, which is not possible. The answer
should also inform that the proposed system would take more energy to
power than it would be capable of producing; other wise these kinds of
ideas lead to endless crackpot schemes for free energy.

To run a deap sea platform on solar energy you would need huge number
of solar panels and cables running all the way from down from the
surface of the sea.  The only way to do this would be either 1)set the
platform on top of a volcano vent, before it blows up, 2) use power of
deep see currents, or 3) use an nuclear power reactor.
I would go with a nuclear power reactor, which would be the safest way.

Of course splitting water by electricity is a given.

Splitting H2O can produce more electricity than is input without being
a "perpetual motion machine" because it also takes produces energy
from the water input.  So the input energy, especially with a
catalyst, could be much lower than the energy released by burning the
H2 and O2 after separation.

PS Does anyone know of a good catalyst for this sort of thing?