To, 
The Reader,

Dear Colleagues,

Hi!

I have a question and have mentioned it below ..... for you to know
more about me, I have done my masters in Chemical Engineering and well
am studying the cosmological literature at the moment I am pursuing to
draw simulation codes at par to the latest know how with the present
knowledge.....

The cosmos in which we live in should be modelled to a precise level
of accuracy which reveals its fine tuned nature. The present
literature, alongwith the experimental signatures go ahead to give an
infinite number of possibilities for the probable cosmos. A probable
approach devised to land up with the above thought fantasy, would be
to add in additional boundary conditions to the existing solutions
which finally give rise to emergence of the single vacua in which we
humans live in and which leads to a simultaneous roll up into those
experimental domains where experiments have yet not been performed or
are impossible. How could this a stupid fantasy as could be generally
thought get realised based upon the present day know how ? Well
simulations exist to be the answer. Those who have taken a sigh at
this moment, or, would prefer to settle themselves as mind readers
kindly excuse ....   So, when I take a step as this I have planned to
land myself very first with an enriched code which collectively should
containing the features of the cosmos as much as has been placed in
the literature ... once I land up having the developed code.. I would
go right ahead to setlle down with incorporating the additional
boundary conditions to be placed inside it... which if possible would
probably open up knowhow to higher dimensional nature of our Universe
or say parallel Universes leading upon to knowledge which would divide
it to be a fact or fiction and well even the exact initial force field
.... let me call it the unknown or say GOD gets answered. Those who
think that the said statements would be speculations etc... kindly
excuse ..

Now what I need is a simulation from the standard model to the present
day earth as detailed as possible if one could place high tide as well
as low tide on the earth surface, the sun and even the solar system
(probably the idea sounds crazy to the author himself :)) ) I shall be
glad to have them... However the price as mentioned initially would
even get hiked if required and felt appropriate... as for the
satisfaction... Generally on the net these simulations are scattered
in bits and pieces I need some one who would collect all of them
together link them together (by linking I mean the codes get unified)
and then point out the link from where the codes could be downloaded
collectively (the modified one) and individually the ones available on
the net .... Remember the system should be able to evolve itself and
land upto the scenarios mentioned..... Their could be modelling
difficulties which would exist in terms of gaps for the knowhow
present in the literature, the person who settles himself on this task
could have the leisure to incorporate direct transitions (and make a
mention of them all and give a complete narrative..of them .) ... for
the unknown .... However once the code is ran successfully and at this
end the author is satisfied well the person could get the price...
Answer - Editors please note ... Those answering me kindly communicate
with me which exists as a precondition before you claim the price.
However satisfaction gauranteed price could be even hiked.

---

Clarification of Question by choudhary-ga on 16 Mar 2004 10:41 PST

My profuse apologies for the spelling errors and Grammatical mistakes
be kindly accepted by the readers.

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 26 Mar 2004 06:35 PST

choudhary-ga,

Let me see if I've got this straight.  You want someone to create a
computer model of the entire universe from, say, the big bang through
to modern day earth, and have it be so finely detailed as to include
the tides, the weather, and other earthly factors?

If I've misunderstood your question, perhaps you could clarify.  

If I'm understanding what you're asking correctly, however, I don't
think that -- even having Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, and Stephen
Hawking as Google Answer researchers -- there is any way to even begin
to answer your question.

Perhaps another researcher will prove me wrong, however.  It would be
fascinating to see the model they provide, I must admit.

pafalafa-ga

---

Clarification of Question by choudhary-ga on 27 Mar 2004 00:39 PST

Dear Pafalafa,

        You are correct bowing as a mark of respect to the
authorities, I would consider to say that neither a code nor a
mechanism has been proposed by any of us which would grow the present
literature in a way, as say to give the results as desired in the
question posed.

        As per your comment below 
   " You want someone to create a
computer model of the entire universe from, say, the big bang through
to modern day earth, and have it be so finely detailed as to include
the tides, the weather, and other earthly factors? "

       
Here you have not got the question correctly. Probably you
misunderstood this statement and my intentions with it ....


"The cosmos in which we live in should be modelled to a precise level
of accuracy which reveals its fine tuned nature."

  This fine tuning would be attempted by the modeller at this end to
the existing literature or the code given .....

  As a word of caution to my readers not to misunderstand my statement
I have further added that one of steps necessary towards this fine
tuning would be to involve unification of forces ... as a necessary
and fundamental step towards the said  goal ....
         
  Creating the computer model by some one enthusiastic probably would
be tedious and time consuming, however if you would like to go ahead
you are free to do so...

  A freedom that you can play with is to collect the already worked
out codes and link them together ...... With only one bell constantly
ringing in your mind that the person at this end has to swim through
the code simultaneously realising their outcomes .... By swimming
through I mean to imagine myself moving in time with a small torch
(code) in my hand which looks at the cosmos grow from initial
conditions to galactic formations, star  fireworks etc ... so that
immediately if I set myself with some tasks to create some
modifications on recently carried out simulations or say test out some
naive hypotheses to check out the modifications to standard model or
say to observe some phenomena on the sun to occur, I should be able to
do so ... (this is what I would be doing very next ... ) It would
appear that the problem is computationally exhaustive and is a huge
cake .... which definitely based on the present conditions I would not
deny ...

I do not know whether you are interested in solving my problem but if
you do this and in the future when I work out my code for the
cosmological simulations I would send you a copy .....

Considering the literally thousands of man-years and hundreds of
computers linked in parallel that have been used to produce the
limited cosmological simulations that currently exist, I don't see how
any single person possibly could write the program desired. It would
require the resources of many computer science departments and
astronomy departments of many universities with government funding
even to come close.

http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/AboutUs/People/Divisions/divisions46.html

hlabadie-ga

To have that much detail, this would probably have to be an actual-size model.

Where would we keep it? ;-)

Dear Pink,

The problem is planned to be handled with a modeller's gloves. So,
when handling these data comes in the code would be made extra
intelligent such that if initially one starts with actual cosmos in
relativistic space, the final outcome of the code would be only the
solar system in newtonian space which gets (is required) to be looked
in as a single entity, at that stage of the problem (problem has been
considered to be the code running at a transient run at which it would
be worthwhile to define in a creation of a solar system), consisting
of planets as their fundamental building blocks in newtonian space
rather than relativistic space (though this does not imply that
relativistic conditions would get sacrificed thorughout the runs but
smooth transitions would be incorporated into) which itself would be
the feature of the code.. rather then go ahead to look at it as a
fundamental form of interaction of the standard model (which probably
could be thought by some).... finally post processing a collection of
few of these smart transient runs obtained would do the rest. Hence, a
capacity of storing a few hundreds of Gigabytes, or, in its multiples
would be sufficient for the thought work now in the present light.

Dear Hlabadie,

        Definitely, thousands of man years could be reduced to a
couple of years of evolution and further modelled to say start with
million particles in the very initial run of the simulation and end up
having a simulation in its last run having only a few  dozens of
particles between these two extreme conditions lie my initial sets of
computations .... Kindly have a look at reply given to pinkfreud-ga
     
        However, at a later stage I would be incorporating next
generation advanced programming concepts which probably would be
worked out on my own or say by my team (group of friends), (University
where I would be pursuing my higher studies (Graduate Studies) or my
professional work place after my studies).. for which I would be
posing further questions when the requirement of it would be felt,
which incase I succeed (their exists a great deal of probability here,
things may/may not, work) as I have thought of now, then, the
computation period required further grows thin .. and to be more
precise am modelling things rather then accounting for each and every
second .. I am interested more towards simulating and reaching the
limiting cases conditions of our present knowhow and have them present
with me in a concentrated manner.. in terms of a simulation... as soon
as possible so as to leisurely grow the code........

When it comes to the funding .... funding is the secondary stage of
growth of a project (Modelling the Universe as in our case) ... where
the primary stage exists to be working out the strategy in a realistic
and highly methodical way ..... initially using a pen and a paper.
And, then directing them through to the entire workforce. At this
junction I am in my initial stages and hence the quench for funding is
felt necessary and till now has yet not been felt... that badly....
However experimental signatures obtained from the reactors could keep
us guessing about the finer details of the Universe for next few
decades... but modeller's do not stop there......

Cheer's
HKC.

Dear Choudhary-ga, and other friends,
I have read your question in which you have desired to get some one to
provide you the computerized standard model of the Universe to present
day Solar System. You have, however, put your subject as under:
?Modelling the Universe through standard model to present day solar system?

From your question under reference, I am sure that it sheds the high
degree of understanding about the Cosmos and the interest shown in
your subject, it gives an impression that your knowledge is deep. I
also congratulate other researchers and comment writers who have taken
so much time and pain to understand the deep question and then tried
to reply to you in detail.
 You have asked the scientific world to provide you the computerized
model of the Universe that could satisfy you but I feel that it has
never been provided by anyone so far. Still I have brief comments to
make, which I hope you would take it in the right spirit: Though I
have no right to say what I am going to say, it is essential to help
removal of the confusion in your mind through this specialized forum.
Thanks in advance for allowing me to send my comments.
The present theory which is accepted by the scientists is ?Big Bang?
and you would also be knowing that it is recently contradicted by
another theory of ?Two Big Bangs? and if you happen to read this book
titled ?Two Big Bangs Created the Universe? (Formed in Eternal Space),
I feel confident that after reading the latest theory which has
already given the graphics in the book, may serve as a future model of
the Universe, though that may  not exactly be the same that you long
for, however, it can definitely serve your purpose to a great extent
in view of the new hypothesis.
 This new theory of Two Big Bangs is based on the prehistory of the
Universe, which has the tracing of more than 1 trillion, 250,000
billion years before the occurrence of the Big Bang and is based on
349 authentic references including that of NASA and world University
Researchers.  Before I give my detailed comments, may I suggest to you
to get the book and read it, it may help to remove your doubts and may
provide you the new notion of the model that you are seeking for. The
question may arise where from to purchase the book? Better log on
www.twobigbangs.com and under query you may get the right address to
get the book. If my other colleagues have some doubt, I would also
suggest to them to read the new theory, it may also change their mind
or revolutionize their thoughts along with yours.
I have no hesitation to mention that the question, answers and the
comments whosoever have given, deserve appreciation and show their
deep knowledge on the subject  and let us continue to make the subject
more educative and comprehensive.


saroul-ga

Dear Saroul-ga,

Thanks a lot for placing Dr. Baldev's work... I would be glad if you
note the additional questions that have been posed by me ... and based
upon it get to the purpose of the question posted... the question
posed is not for debating whether their existed a big bang or whether
brane collisions produced our cosmos or whether their had been no big
bang, but, its for a kind of continuity thread to be obtained from the
initial conditions (as known to us in literature) to our latest
situations... simultaneously moving down to extremities... and thats
the only purpose of the question... ... which has been posed... for
you to have a clearer picture  of the space where the discussions
exist I would request you to kindly spare your time on looking at the
additional questions posed.... so that a better understanding of the
domain where the discussions exist become clear  ... and you help me
in more ways than one..... I am not asking the scientific world to do
anything any favours of constructing a model in a way out of their
profession... but am aiming to collect the discussions (in terms of
software developed and link them together) on the work done in the
literature which show different aspects of our cosmos ....... once I
have this I plan to work out my model in my profession in my way....
Out of your devoted interest towards the question posed I share one of
the goals of the work which is to explain and define those laws which
melt and are unknown to us on time scales before 10^-43 seconds,
remember even reactors do not have the answer. However this is one of
the complexity levels at which the problem is being handled.

Dear friend,
I am happy to learn that your ultimate aim is to collect the
discussions, in terms of software developed and link them together on
the work done in the literature which shows different aspects of our
cosmos on one hand and to plan your model in your profession in your
own way on the other. You feel that even reactors do not have the
answer, so far the time scales before 10-43 seconds.   I am confident
when people like you are here with so much spirit and energy, you have
better chances to succeed. Any how, I shall suggest to you it would be
better if you read the Two Big Bangs Created the Universe by Dr. Raj
Baldev.  You may not lose anything if you do it, you may gain another
idea which can help in your great research. I shall revert to you
soon.
saroulga

I'm pretty sure that the correct answer is that you cannot model the
universe, not because of a lack of time, or space or resources
(thought experiment: do this in a universe significantly larger than
our own - that's where you would keep it ;-) but because it is
impossible.

Our current understanding of the universe indicates that processes not
only happen randomly but MUST happen randomly in order to avoid
violating the undertainty principle. This is a the basis of complex
dynamics, and it involves the idea that the only way to predict the
outcome of a complex dynamical system is by actually doing the thing
that you are trying to predict.

Thus, if you were able to build a simulator for our universe in a
computer in a larger universe, and model the initial conditions
exactly, the outcome would be a universe that bore no resemblance to
our own. In fact, you would have to run the simulation an infinite
number of times to get the exact outcome that is our universe, but you
would never know it because, in order to compare the simulation with
our universe to prove they were the same, you would once again have to
violate the uncertainty principle.

Hence, the universe is its own simulator. Enjoy it. The answer is 42.

Alan Kali

Dear Saroul,
           I would be glad if you kindly make note of a point that
linking the softwares is a kind of review work undertaken... I hope
you have understood the way in which the goal has been planned to
achieve (to make it more clear kindly note once you have to erect a
plant on a site you have a survey once you are through your survey
again and again defintely you could go ahead building your ownnn bla
bla bla.... etc) .. Anyway thanks for pointing out Baldev's work as a
reminder to me... I am a bit forgetfull... I hope now it shall stay in
my memory... Anyways I can assure you of definitely going through his
work once I complete my model ... since ... to declare the completion
of my work minimum to myself in the preliminary stages would be to
have a simultaneous comparision of the model being developed
prediction's to other's, and, well their is where how the bang or no
bang or n-bangs exist would be debated and their authenticities
further probed... and proven..... Well lets see how quick the goal
gets achieved.

Dear Alkali,
       Thanks for your comment... at this very moment I have not
permitted my ownself to comment as briefly as would have been a
professional reply ...on your comment... All I could say is let's wait
with fingers crossed  say for another few years by when well this
person's work at this end would be over.... till then lets be reminded
of a story told long long ago. In the primitive days of a village
which had never seen torchlight... a stranger (say from a city)
crossed this village one night when it was pitch dark... the few
people who were awake ran inside their houses closed all the doors...
and dared not to come out... next morning when everyone came out and
asembled in front of the village headman (the wise fellow) the headman
told it was a cat carrying a cart.... full of his kittens... today
would you beleive it ??? Probably the doubt should be clear by
now......