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Q: Practical Physics: Staying Cool ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   3 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Practical Physics: Staying Cool
Category: Family and Home > Home
Asked by: nronronronro-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 18 Mar 2004 20:50 PST
Expires: 17 Apr 2004 21:50 PDT
Question ID: 318198
Hi There !

This is a long question that requires a short answer.

I want to learn how to cool a house with fans.  Please note I am
looking for simple answers to a practical problem----not
mathematical answers to a theoretical problem.  2-3 paragraphs of
opinion will answer this question just fine...

Imagine this scenario:  the daily high temperature in my area is 100
degrees and the daily low is 60 degrees.  I want to keep the indoor
temperature as close to 70 degrees as possible around the clock. 
Because I'm a cheapskate, I want to use fans rather than air
conditioning/evaporative coolers whenever
possible.

My house is 5000 square feet (2500 upstairs and 2500 downstairs).  I
own a big fan that blows 25,000 CFM.

Should I turn on the fan any time the temperature outside is less than
the temperature inside?  Should I wait for a 5+ degree differential
between outside and inside?  Or, is it more complicated than that?

Now, assume the temperature inside reaches 90 degrees during the day
while I am at work and I return home at 8 PM, when the outside
temperature has fallen from a high of 100 degrees down to 68 degrees. 
How long will it take my fan to lower the temperature to 70 degrees
when I return home and switch on the fan?

Would I be better off blowing my hot house-air out into the world, or
blowing the cool outside-air into my house?  In other words, which
direction should the fan point?

If I have two 25,000 CFM fans instead of one, does this cut my "air
evacuation time" in half?

A 5-star answer would be 2-3 paragraphs of opinion.  Please note no
mathematics, web sites, or sources are required to answer these
questions.  Answering "off the top of your head" or from your own
anecdotal experience is fine with me.


All comments greatly appreciated !

ron

Request for Question Clarification by omnivorous-ga on 18 Mar 2004 21:06 PST
Ron --

Good question: it will need to consider sources of ventilating air. 
But it should also consider a second element: humidity.  Replacing
85-degree (F) low humidity air with 80-degree high humidity air can
make a situation worse.

Some description of the following are in order:
*  what's the source of incoming air?
*  how high are your ceilings (it may make sense to ventilate within a
room, particularly if ceilings are more than 10' tall)?
*  do you have air conditioning or a heat pump?

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA

Clarification of Question by nronronronro-ga on 18 Mar 2004 22:38 PST
Hi once again, omnivorous !

Here are the answers to your questions:

1.  70% humidity both indoors and outdoors  (in other words, no
dehumidifiers or A/C)
2.  Source is ambient air outside my living room----air does not come
off a lake or shade trees or anything "special"
3.  Ceilings are tall.  10 feet to 14 feet.  (Does this imply I should
pump air *out* upstairs rather than pump air *in* downstairs?  Or,
does it make no difference?)
4.  No heat pump.  I do have two Movin Cools.  These are
industrial-sized portable spot coolers normally used to cool computer
server rooms.

Thanks, omnivorous !
ron
Answer  
Subject: Re: Practical Physics: Staying Cool
Answered By: sublime1-ga on 18 Mar 2004 23:25 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
nronronronro...

Hello again!

I live in Arizona, and am also a cheapskate, so I've wrestled
with this very issue for the last 2 years. Here's what I've
found:

Denco-ga makes a good point about drawing the air from the
shaded part of the house, however, in my situation, it would
be frustratingly slow. The north side of the house is shaded,
and thus cooler, but drawing the air from there to the hottest
part of the house, the southern end, where I spend my time, 
would take too long, as it's the furthest away. I would have
to replace all the air in the house before I felt any 
difference. Obviously, the layout of your house may be a 
strong determining factor in this regard.

What I have found to work best is to blow the hot air out of 
the house from any convenient location (the most convenient
for me is a part of the house where I can't hear the fan
running).

Now, I have observed some interesting phenomena. Once the 
outside temperature is lower than the inside, it seems 
logical to turn the fan on (I have a variable-speed fan
which isn't as powerful as yours).

The first thing I notice is that, even with the temperature
outside being lower than the inside, with the fan on low,
I can see an *increase* in the inside temperature in the
room where the cooler air is coming directly in. I believe
this is due to the heat which has been absorbed by the walls 
and ceiling spaces of the structure during the day continuing
to be spread into the air of the structure at night.
Turning the fan up higher helps to counteract this.

Secondly, I notice that a small difference in temperature
between the outside and inside is not sufficient. When
you consider that the test of a healthy air conditioner
is that the temp at the outlet is 20 degrees cooler than
the room temp, and considering how long the AC must run
(and how often) to cool the space, you can see that a 
smaller difference in temp will have little effect.

With a higher-volume fan, there will be a corresponding
increase in the air exchange, so you won't need a 20
degree difference, but I wouldn't start until there's
at least a 5 degree difference.

Thirdly, as omnivorous-ga notes, replacing low-humidity
air with high-humidity, but cooler, air, will not feel
any cooler, so make sure the outside humidity is fairly
low, or it won't be worth the effort. Additionally, 
should you give up on the fan, on a particular evening,
and turn on the AC, realize that the AC provides most
of its cooling effect precisely by removing humidity 
from the air in your house. If you have imported
significantly humid air from the outside, your AC will
have to work that much harder to remove the humidity.
This can get expensive.


Given all that, here's what I would recommend:

Allow the intake of air to come into the room you will
be spending the most time in during the cooling period.
For me, that is my living room, and the point of intake
is the fireplace. With the flue open, this is ideal,
since it draws in air from a higher altitude than any
window I have in that room, and that air is cooler than
outside air coming from a lower altitude (hot air rises,
cold air descends). And it doesn't have to travel through
any warm air before arriving in my living room (versus air 
coming into a second story window, which must then travel
through the hotter air in that part of the house).

Set the fan up for exhaust, preferably from either the
*quietest* location in the house, or if that's not an
issue, from the *hottest* place in the house, which,
for you, will surely be on the second floor, since,
again, hot air rises, cold descends. The higher you
can place the exhaust fan in that space, the better.

In short, exhaust from the space with the hottest air,
and intake into the space where you will be spending
time, from the highest intake point possible.

By the time you go to bed, the temperature in your
bedroom *should* have averaged out with the rest of
the house, but realize that, if the exhaust fan is
*in* your bedroom, it may end up being the hottest
space in your house, since that's the exit point for
the heat. If the fan is not exhausting from your 
bedroom, you can experiment with opening a window
in the bedroom to just the right amount to cool that
space to the perfect temperature by the time you go 
to bed, without significantly detracting from the
cooling effect on your main living space.

Two fans *can* work more effectively. One at the 
exhaust and one at the intake would be most effective,
however, if the one at intake is, as I recommended,
in your main living space, it will likely be too
noisy. Two fans exhausting from the two hottest
spaces in the house (upstairs) would be quieter
and more effective all around.

Finally, place a thermometer in the main living space,
and use it to gauge the success of your arrangement.
This will help you determine exactly how much of a 
difference in temperature, between inside and outside,
is workable. It will also help you to know when & if 
it's time to turn off the fan and turn on the AC.


Please do not rate this answer until you are satisfied that
the answer cannot be improved upon by way of a dialog
established through the "Request for Clarification" process.

sublime1-ga
nronronronro-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
sublibe1 ----I already feel more cool !
Thanks for the terrific advice !

ron

Comments  
Subject: Re: Practical Physics: Staying Cool
From: denco-ga on 18 Mar 2004 21:11 PST
 
Howdy ron,

Personal experience with this (I don't like air conditioners and prefer
fans myself) has shown me that you can great results from drawing in
outside air from the shadowed side of the house (usually the north side)
and setting the fan to blow out (exhaust) on the opposite point of the
house.

The shadowed part of the outside of the house is always cooler than the
outside ambient temperature.  I run a small (one of those twin motor
window type) fan in my 1200 square foot house, and even thought it gets
near or over 100 degrees in the summer, the house stays quite cool.

I would think setting your fan to run any time the inside temperature is
over 70 degrees or so would do the job just fine, and a 25,000 CFM fan
should do the job overly well.  If you waited until you came home from
work, turn the fan on, drink your favorite cool beverage outside for a
half hour and the house should be nice and cool.

Looking Forward (to summer!) - denco-ga -  Google Answers Researcher
Subject: Re: Practical Physics: Staying Cool
From: nronronronro-ga on 18 Mar 2004 23:57 PST
 
omnivorous---thanks for clarifying this question.  I owe you one.

Thx...ron
Subject: Re: Practical Physics: Staying Cool
From: nronronronro-ga on 18 Mar 2004 23:58 PST
 
denco---I always appreciate your comments...especially the ones
involving a cool beverage.

Thank you !
ron

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