I would like to know the following?
1. I have ideas related to software/hardware/e-commerce, which when I
discuss with my friends are likeable, but I am not heading in the
right direction, as the development cost is high or implementation
cost is high? Is there any Govt. agency/Organization that helps in
protecting my exclusive rights for those ideas, after I discuss my
ideas with them?
2. Is there any authentic website/organization which can help me
implement those ideas?
3. How can anyone patent an idea instead of the product?
4. Are there any organizations which build and implement ideas of
others and then give due credit to the designer?

I have discussed few ideas with my mentor, and he guided me to
approach the company, but when I approached the company which can
implement it, they asked me to build a prototype for them, which is
not feasible, and I am worried that they might implement it on their
own without giving due credit to me, as I have discussed my idea with
them.

Looking forward to your answers.
Please be precise in your answer, and be very specific.

---

Clarification of Question by mapadanesa-ga on 09 Apr 2004 18:52 PDT

Please provide me information in steps.
Like answer for second part could be sites similar to www.litmanlaw.com
www.invention-techn.com with a more detailed research on their
activities and feedback of other clients. Link to some kind of forum,
which provides input to this kind of situation.

I do not want to get entangled in attorney stuff, and also I do not
want to become a member of some group, which is neither Incorporated
or which has no legal binding to USA Gov.

I will give an example to clarify myself.
Assume I have a business model 'concept' to sell which can be
implemented in any Hotel. I go ahead and discuss that model with one
of the local Hilton Manager (He is a busy man, and gives me an
opportunity to show what I have to sell, after I call them 4-5 times
and visit them 2 times). I do not have any thing to sell and it is
only an idea. He sits with me, listens me patiently, gets interested
in my idea, and gives me few names and numbers to call at the Head
Office so that I can explain that idea to the VP-Finance, VP-IT,
VP-MKTG. I call them and leave messages on their phones (3 times), and
I do not get a call back. Now here I am in a fix. If I do not pursue
it, the local manager will call his management and tell them about the
idea and get himself a decent raise. If I somehow contact the
management, they will listen to me and tell me to provide the complete
proposal with ROI and business benefits. How can I be sure that they
will not implement it without me? They can, they are big and have men,
money and material to implement it. Where do I stand? Nowhere! That is
why I posted this question on google.

I am looking for a solution to the above problem.

Let me know if the above scenario helps, which is the most closest
situation to my idea.

Thanks for everybody's input so far. But my dilemna still stands.

Hope to get good answers so that I can start using this place more
often and also start recommending it to other curious seekers of
knowledge.

Given your desire to avoid involving an attorney at this time, the
best step you could take would be to file a provisional patent
application on your own.  This would give you up to 12 months to
pursue developing and marketing your invention before you would need
to spend significant amounts of money on a patent attorney/patent
agent and patent application fees.  Both patent attorneys and patent
agents are qualified to file patent applications on your behalf with
the United States Patent and Trademark Office.  Patent agents
typically cost less, but they are unable to litigate, nor can they
handle trademark issues.  The provisional patent application does not
require you to have the formal drawings required of a non-provisional
application, and also does not require claims, which are constructed
in specialized legal language and are difficult for non-experts to
construct successfully.

To begin the process, I would first advise you to visit the United
States Patent and Trademark Office at www.USPTO.gov and search the
existing patent database to see how unique your idea truly is.  If
there is something already out there that is virtually identical, a
patent may be difficult to obtain or may be of minimal commercial
value.  The prior art patents are grouped by classification, so you
would want to identify which classifications are likely to apply to
your invention, and then check out the prior art in those areas. 
Fulltext searching for relevant keywords can be done for patents
published after 1976.

The least expensive way for you to begin protecting your invention
would be to file a Disclosure Document.  However, it is a much less
strong form of protection than a provisional patent application.

"A provisional application is retained by the U.S. Patent and
Trademark Office (USPTO) for at least 21 years and may be converted to
a non-provisional application, but a Disclosure Document is only
retained in the USPTO for a period of two years. A Disclosure Document
is NOT a patent application, and the date of its receipt in the USPTO
will not become the effective filing date of any patent application
subsequently filed. However, the date of the Disclosure Document's
receipt provides evidence of a date of conception if it is referenced
in a related patent application. The Disclosure Document brochure is
at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/disdo.html. A provisional
application provides the means to establish an earlier effective
filing date for a patent application and permits the term "Patent
Pending" to be applied in connection with the invention. A foreign
application may claim priority to a provisional application, but a
disclosure document may not be relied upon for priority. Information
on provisional applications is at
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/provapp.htm. Upon request, the
USPTO will send Disclosure Document and Provisional Patent Application
brochures including forms. For additional information, you may contact
the USPTO Contact Center (UCC) and request to be transferred to the
Inventors Assistance Center (IAC). IAC representatives are available
Monday through Friday (except federal holidays) from 8:30 a.m. to 5:00
p.m. Eastern Time."

"What is the difference between a disclosure document and a
provisional application?"  United States Patent and Trademark Office
http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/

In addition to law firms and patent agencies that only provide
standard patent application assistance, various firms exist that
purport to help you market and license your invention.

"Invention development companies are private and public research
companies that help inventors develop, patent, and promote their ideas
so they can be commercially licensed or sold. While many of these
organizations are legitimate, some are not."

"DO NOT disclose your invention to a developer over the phone before
first signing a confidentiality agreement. You could forfeit valuable
patent rights."

"Can you give me some information on companies that can help with my
invention?"   United States Patent and Trademark Office
http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/

One place to start investigating invention promotion firms, if you
decide to go that route, is
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/data.htm#LicensePromotion
"Published Complaints"  United States Patent and Trademark Office.

Another source  of possible aid in developing your invention is your
state government.

"In nearly all states there are state planning and development
agencies or departments of commerce and industry to assist inventors .
If you do not know the names and addresses of your state
organizations, you may obtain this information by writing to the
governor of your state or by accessing the Small Business
Administration Web site at http://www.sbaonline.sba.gov."

"How do I get help marketing my invention?" United States Patent and
Trademark Office http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/

Importantly, you should not make any additional disclosures of your
invention to anyone without having them signing nondisclosure
agreement.  Preferably, you should wait until you have filed a
provisional patent application so that you can label all of the
materials associated with your invention as Patent Pending.  You
cannot sue anyone for violating your patent until you have actually
had a patent issued, but the Patent Pending notice would allow you to
collect additional damages if your suit was successful.

You do not have to have actually made your invention.  As long as you
can describe how it would work, and that description is credible, you
can pursue obtaining a patent on it.  You can also patent business
processes and methods for doing things, although this has become more
difficult because of recent controversies in this area. There is a lot
of very useful information on the United States Patent and Trademark
Office web site that I encourage you to read so that you will
understand the process and are in the best position to make a decision
regarding how to proceed with protecting your invention.

There is no easy way to go about licensing your invention. 
Identifying companies that would potentially be interested, contacting
them, and actively trying to sell them on your invention is by far the
best approach.

I hope the above information is helpful to you as you develop your invention.

Sincerely,

Wonko

---

Request for Answer Clarification by mapadanesa-ga on 11 Apr 2004 18:12 PDT

Thanks Wonko for your input, and I have looked into the links you sent. 

Towards the end of your answer you stated "There is no easy way to go
about licensing your invention. Identifying companies that would
potentially be interested, contacting them, and actively trying to
sell them on your invention is by far the best approach."
Correct me if I am wrong in understanding your reply. 
You suggest that instead of searching for my idea's patent on USPTO
(which is time consuming task, as when I entered the key words for my
patents in "Issued Patents" and "Published Applications", I get more
than 1000 results.), I approach a company that would potentially be
interested in my idea or invention is by far the best approach.
In first part you state that "The least expensive way for you to begin
protecting your invention would be to file a Disclosure Document. 
However, it is a much less strong form of protection than a
provisional patent application."
I assume that you are suggesting me to follow this path:
1. Search for a company and sell the idea, if not then take step 2.
2. File a Disclosure Document or Provisional Patent Application
(depending upon the budget) and then file the actual patent
application (estimated cost of which is around $500).
3. Along with filing a provisional patent, I should also contact State
Govt. for any help, by writing to the Governor's office.

Please note that from everybody's response it seems that getting a
patent is no easy task, but having an idea in your mind and then
watching the same idea being implemented after 2-3 years makes you
feel that you would have done more to get it in your name.

My idea is related to Information System and when I search those key
words I get more than 1000 results, which makes me feel that there
should be an easier way. Like just putting your idea on paper, and
sending it to USPTO, and let them come with an answer saying it is
accepted or it has already been patented. The idea I have is not seen
at the places it should be implemented, but somebody might have filed
a patent and would be looking for someone to implement it, just like
me.

My question was:
I would like to know the following?
1. I have ideas related to software/hardware/e-commerce, which when I
discuss with my friends are likeable, but I am not heading in the
right direction, as the development cost is high or implementation
cost is high? Is there any Govt. agency/Organization that helps in
protecting my exclusive rights for those ideas, after I discuss my
ideas with them?
Your Answer: USPTO, State Govt.

2. Is there any authentic website/organization which can help me
implement those ideas?
Your Answer: Partially Answered.....I was looking for web addresses of
few private or public companies/organizations, which help you in the
process of patenting the idea, instead of attorneys. I understand you
suggested going to patent agents, but did not specify the links to
them.

3. How can anyone patent an idea instead of the product?
Your Answer: By filling a provisional patent at USPTO

4. Are there any organizations which build and implement ideas of
others and then give due credit to the designer?
Your Answer: Not Answered.....I was looking for web addresses of few
private or public companies/organizations, which help you in the
process implementing the idea, after you have filed the provisional
patent application.

Anyway, thanks again for your answer, but please clarify on the above
mentioned issues.
Looking forward to a quick response.

---

Clarification of Answer by wonko-ga on 11 Apr 2004 19:29 PDT

Please let me clarify my answer.  First, before you talk to anyone
about buying your invention, you should at a minimum file a Disclosure
Document or Provisional Patent Application with the patent office. 
Without doing that, anyone you talk to can simply steal your
invention.  They have no reason to buy it from you.

Realistically, you are not very likely to sell your invention until
you actually have been issued a patent.  Only then is it certain that
you own your idea.  However, interest you generate in your idea may
provide you with sufficient motivation to pursue obtain a patent by
filing a formal non-provisional application because it appears to be
commercially viable.

Second, before you talk to anyone, including even anyone who is just
going to assist you with your invention, you should have them sign a
nondisclosure agreement as well.  This will protect your interests
while you are waiting for your patent to be issued.  Otherwise, until
you have filed a Provisional Patent Application and labeled your idea
as being Patent Pending, someone else can use it and not owe you any
damages unless they continue to use it after your patent issues.

Here is a link to an official listing of both registered patent agents
and patent attorneys:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/roster/index.html
"Registered Attorneys and Agents Search" United States Patent and
Trademark Office

There are many firms indicating they assist inventors with their
inventions and obtaining patents.  Some examples:

http://franklinforge.com/ Franklin Forge Patent Research

http://invent-tech.com/ Invent-Tech

http://www.isc-online.com/forms/inventorinforeq_search.asp?id=5
Invention Submission Corp.

I hope this helps you with your invention.

Sincerely,

Wonko

Wonko:
I was researching your answer and found out that it is expensive to
file the patent (around $5000 to $7000) including Attorney fee. I have
decided that instead of filing a patent, I would just file a
disclosure statement and a provisional application. Then I would do
more search for the companies who would be willing to implement it.
The list of companies you sent include a name Invent-Tech
(http://invent-tech.com/) which is shown as company with pending
complaints on USPTO website.
Before you started answering my question, I knew about USPTO, and my
main intention was to get addresses of some company who should just
take it from me and implement it.
The things I learnt from your Answer were the steps to take for
filling a patent and the direct links of USPTO.
Although I have no clue where to head right now, but your answer has
given me a track to follow.
Thanks for your time.

Long ago people sometimes described their ideas in detail in a letter
to themselves and/or trusted friends. The letters must not be opened
except by a court judge. The post mark establishes the date the ideas
were written, except there are now ways to fake the post mark, so this
method is likely now useless.
 The patent and copywrite process has become very complex and you may
not be protected even if you pay a patent attourny a $1000 fee.
Hopefully someone else will have better news than most valuable ideas
are stollen.  Neil

1. You should not discuss your ideas with anyone without a written
non-disclosure agreement in place unless you already  AT LEAST have a
patent application on file as to the invention that embodies the idea.
 There is joke among intellectual property lawyers:  "Q: What does
patent-pending mean?  A: Copy it quick."  The joke is that you cannot
protect an idea at all (absent a written non-disclosure agreement)
unless and until the patent actually issues, and so if it is only
patent-pending, anybody can copy your idea and make your product with
impunity (as long as they do not otherwise infringe your copyrights or
trademarks at the same time).  So be careful if you talk about it
before the patent issues.  Also remember something called the on-sale
bar.  This means that you cannot obtain a patent on technology that
has been "on-sale" or available to the public for a year or more prior
to the filing date.  For all these reasons, you must be very
circumspect about the persons with whom you share your idea.

2. You should find a reputable patent attorney immediately.  Try the
American Bar Association referral service.
(http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/lris/directory.html)  You should
also review materials at the patent office on protecting your
intellectual property (http://www.uspto.gov/main/patents.htm).

3. Obtaining a patent requires only that the idea be reducible to
practice, not that you have an actual working prototype.  Thus, if it
were POSSIBLE to build a time machine using current technologies, you
could get a patent on the idea and process for building one even if
you do not have a working prototype.  So even if you?ve just got an
idea, you can get a patent as long as somebody reasonably skilled in
the art could build a working model based on your idea.

4. Yes, but it is a better idea to seek out a patent attorney because
(a) he or she is bound by attorney-client privilege, (b) he or she has
no shared profit motive and can give you more objective advice, and
(c) he or she will be bound by rules of professional, ethical conduct.

For these two points, you may go and join the group

2. Is there any authentic website/organization which can help me
implement those ideas?

4. Are there any organizations which build and implement ideas of
others and then give due credit to the designer?

If your ideas really worth it then this group member would form a team
to help you implkement your ideas

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Projects_and_Ideas/