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Q: Cannot Connect to Internet via DSL or my LAN with a new computer ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Cannot Connect to Internet via DSL or my LAN with a new computer
Category: Computers > Hardware
Asked by: wschwader-ga
List Price: $30.00
Posted: 13 Apr 2004 19:41 PDT
Expires: 13 May 2004 19:41 PDT
Question ID: 329858
I cannot get my newest computer to connect to my DSL modem and thus
cannot use the LAN services of the modem nor access the internet.

I have 5 computers connected to the DSL modem (visionnet adsl 202ER-4)
 Four of those computers (of various Windows operating systems)
connect just fine.  Two of the good ones are connected with ethernet
cable and the other two good ones are connected via LinkSys Wireless-B
access point (hence there is still room for the 5th computer - my new
one.)  On the new computer that fails, I have tried ethernet and
wireless with the same failed results. For ethernet I tried the
built-in LOM and also a PCI LAN card.

One more thing yet that I have tried is to place a LinkSys Cable/DSL
Firewall Router with 4-port switch between the new computer and the
DSL modem (using ethernet wires.)  I also connected a second Windows
2000 machine to this Router to prove that I set it up correctly.  The
other machine worked great and my new machine failed.

I CAN connect to the Internet using a 56K modem just fine with the new
computer.  Also, I can use a secondary Network hub (or the Lynksys
Router) and connect to another machine that way, in fact I can access
the internet this way too if the other machine is set up to offer
Internet Connection Sharing. But this workaround is not good enough
for my needs.

I returned the computer to the store where they connected it via a
cable modem and it worked immediately for them without any
configuration.

I have verified that all ports on the modem are fine and the ethernet
cables are good too.  I have proven this by swapping the cables with
good computers and swapping the ports they are plugged in to.  I have
also tried connecting only one computer to the DSL modem and removing
the rest.

The new computer (that cannot connect) is a Windows 2000 Pro Service
Pack 4 and it is set up with similar settings as the two other Windows
2000 computers on my network. Two other computers are a Win98 and XP.

The new computer has the following hardware:
P4 2.6 Ghz 
Asus P4P800 Motherboard with 3Com Gigabit LOM (3C940)

I have tried IPConfig /renew and pinging the 202ER-4 (which fails.) 
Interestingly, Windows shows that I am connected to the LAN, but no
packets ever come back to it and I cannot see other computers on the
network. I do not have a firewall nor anti-virus installed.

TCP/IP is set up to obtain an IP address automatically, and also the
DNS server address automatically.

An acceptable answer doesn't have to be elaborate.  It just needs to
solve my problem of connecting to the Internet and LAN with my new
computer.  If you cannot solve the problem but can identify exactly
where the problem lies then that would be worth half to me (but since
this is the first time I've used Google Answers I don't know if there
is a facility for awarding half answers.)

Thanks.

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 16 Apr 2004 21:45 PDT
wschwader-ga:

Connectivity problems like this are always difficult to debug through
an asynchronous, online text conversation... but let's try anyway!

First, can you answer a few clarifying questions for me?

1. Does the new PC receive a DHCP-assigned address from the 202ER-4
when you connect it, and if so, what is the IP address? By default,
the 202ER-4 has DHCP and Network Address Port Translation (NAPT)
enabled, do you know if these have been disabled by you or anyone who
set up your network?

2. Are you able to edit the configuration of the 202ER-4, through it's
web interface (default address 10.0.0.2)?

3. You have mentioned that you are able to navigate within your home
network from the new PC when using another router, but not when
connected directly to the 202ER-4; can you confirm for me whether the
other PCs are using internal, private IP addresses (most likely in the
10.0.0.x subnet) or external IP addresses assigned by your ISP?

Looking forward to your reply,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by wschwader-ga on 17 Apr 2004 04:13 PDT
1 - ipconfig reports
ip address 10.0.0.9
subnet mask 255.0.0.0
default gateway 10.0.0.2
ip routing enabled: yes
dhcp enabled: yes
dhcp server: 10.0.0.2
dns servers: 10.0.0.2

These settings are the same as another win 2000 machine that can
connect except for its ip of 10.0.0.6.

NAT is enabled.  Is this the same as NAPT?

2 - I am able to edit the modem configuration via http://10.0.0.2 on
any machine except the new machine.  So if there is a change that can
be made in the modem's configuration i will be able to make it.

3 - All other machines on my network have local IPs in the range of
10.0.0.4 thru 10.0.0.20.  My good win 2000 machine is 10.0.0.6.

Other info:  In the connection status, I can see the bytes sent when I
try to access anything on the LAN or internet but the bytes received
stay at 60 or 120 and never move.  This goes along with the fact that
pinging 10.0.0.2 fails.

I also tried ipconfig /release followed by ipconfig /renew.  No difference.

I read somewhere that a problem like this was solved simply by
unplugging the modem overnight.  It was a cable modem though and not a
dsl modem.  The person that came up with the answer said to try this
because it was a non DOCSIS modem. Does this sound applicable?

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 18 Apr 2004 00:22 PDT
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I was offline until just now.

With regards to your question about unplugging the modem overnight,
the net result of this would be to allow all lease times on all DHCP
assigned addresses to expire. In the cable Internet world, this is
often helpful because the DHCP servers serving an entire portion of a
cable Internet service provider's network can at times be finicky, and
refuse to assign a new address to a machine that it mistakes for one
that already should have an address.

In your situation, because you are using an ADSL Internet service
provider, and because your Visionnet DSL modem/router receives only a
single external address from your provider, the external address is
not the problem. If it were, none of your other machines would be able
to get outside of your home network, either. While unplugging the
modem would help in expiring the lease times on all of the DHCP
addresses assigned internally, that is less likely to be the problem
here (since this PC has never been able to access the outside world
from your home network).

The most likely cause is a routing problem or DNS problem with the new
PC, caused in part by settings created in the PC's TCP/IP stack by the
initial connection to the computer store's cable Internet service. To
troubleshoot this, please carefully run the following commands, and
post (where relevant) the results that come up:

1. From your Start menu, select Run... and type "cmd" (and Enter) to
get a command prompt;
2. Type "ipconfig /flushdns" to flush the current DNS cache in your
W2K TCP/IP config;
3. Type "route -f" to flush the routing table;
4. Type "ipconfig /release" to release your IP address;
5. Type "ipconfig /renew" to request a new DHCP-assigned IP address;
6. Type "ipconfig /all" and post the resulting information here;
7. Type "route print" and post the resulting table of routing information here;

(Note: to copy and paste from a command prompt window, left-click on
the icon at the top-left corner of the window, and select Edit> Mark
to turn the cursor into a solid block, then use your mouse to drag
across the rectangle of text you wish to copy, then hit Enter.... the
text is copied to the Clipboard, you can paste it into any other
window that accepts text input)

Please post the information from steps 6 and 7 here, and I will see if
any clues come out. Please also see if you are able to access the
Internet after step 7, as sometimes flushing the routing table and
renewing your IP address is all that is needed.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by wschwader-ga on 18 Apr 2004 04:11 PDT
Thanks for continuing to respond.  Unfortunately, no success yet.  
Here is the information that you requested.

Windows 2000 IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : warren2
        Primary DNS Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Mixed
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 3Com Gigabit LOM (3C940)
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0E-A6-39-EA-92
        DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.9
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.0.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.2
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.2
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.2
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, April 18, 2004 3:49:25 AM
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, April 19, 2004 3:49:25 AM

===========================================================================
Interface List
0x1 ........................... MS TCP Loopback interface
0x8000003 ...00 0e a6 39 ea 92 ...... 3Com Gigabit NIC (3C2000 Family)
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination        Netmask          Gateway       Interface  Metric
          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0         10.0.0.2        10.0.0.9       1
         10.0.0.0        255.0.0.0         10.0.0.9        10.0.0.9       1
         10.0.0.9  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
   10.255.255.255  255.255.255.255         10.0.0.9        10.0.0.9       1
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0         10.0.0.9        10.0.0.9       1
  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255         10.0.0.9        10.0.0.9       1
Default Gateway:          10.0.0.2
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
  None

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 18 Apr 2004 09:31 PDT
Those results are clean... which is no help to us at all! :)

Brute force time. Please do the following:

1. Using "ipconfig /all", take note of the lease expiry time on the
DHCP assigned address for the 3COM Gigabit LOM (Monday, April 19th, at
3:43AM in your posting)
2. Unplug the new PC from your home network. 
3. Go to Control Panel>System>Hardware>Device Manager
4. Expand the Network adapters branch
5. Right-click on the "3COM Gigabit LOM", and select Disable
6. Right-click on the "3COM Gigabit LOM" again, and select Uninstall
7. After the adapter has been uninstalled, shut down the PC and wait
until after the lease expiry time has occurred
8. Restart the new PC while it is still unplugged from your home network.
9. When prompted during start-up, install the 3COM Gigabit LOM's
driver, accepting the driver that the OS should find on your hard
drive already.
10.Plug the new PC back into your home network.
11.Test to see if you are now able to ping the other machines on your home network.

The purpose in this procedure is to reinstall the TCP/IP stack in your
new PC, and to give the Visionnet time to remove the new PC from its
DHCP client table completely.

After you complete this procedure, also try to ping the new PC from
the other machines, to see if it can be found.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by wschwader-ga on 20 Apr 2004 23:55 PDT
I followed the procedure exactly as stated.  The modem shows that the
lease was expired for 10.0.0.9.  There is no difference in the
behavior after reinstalling the 3Com adapter.

The 3Com LOM has a diagnostic app.  For the NIC test it reports
"Failed to Autonegotiate.  There was no link to adapter."  For the
Network Test it reports "Failed to receive packet."  This is likely
old news.

Thanks for continuing to follow up on this.

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 21 Apr 2004 00:13 PDT
wschwader-ga:

There is a possibility that the Visionnet 202ER-4 is not allowing the
3COM Gigabit NIC to properly identify the fact that it cannot use the
1000 Mbps speed. Please try the following:

- Go to Control Panel > System > Hardware > Device Manager
- Locate the 3COM Gigabit NIC as you have done before, this time
right-click on it and select Properties...
- Go to the Advanced tab
- You should see a property along the lines of 'connection type', or
'connection speed', highlight it
- In the pull-down list box, change it from Auto Negotiate to 10Base-T
Half Duplex (this is the most basic level)
- Click OK; you may need to reboot at this point

After rebooting, test the NIC again with the 3COM utility you mentioned.

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by wschwader-ga on 21 Apr 2004 00:17 PDT
Problem Solved!

Although it wasn't directly related to the advice given, the advice
did guide me down the correct path and made me think of the correct
issues.

The problem was that my computer was set up to access my company's VPN
using Netscreen Remote and the settings were 10.0.0.0 with subnet
255.0.0.0 which are exactly the IP ranges as the visionnet modem. 
Hence, Netscreen was getting in the way.

The only question left remaining is how I accomplish both goals.  That
of accessing my company's VPN which likely require me to use the
10.0.0.0 subnet 255.0.0.0, and configuring the modem to use something
else.  I don't know if my ISP requires me to also use 10.0.0.2?  Their
tech support can likely provide that answer too.

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 21 Apr 2004 00:24 PDT
Glad to hear that you were able to get to the bottom of the problem!

Check in the web-based configuration interface for the Visionnet, you
most likely can change the subnet for the internal network. The
10.0.0.2 address used by the Visionnet is only visible inside your
network, and is separate from the address assigned to the Visionnet's
external interface by the ISP. If the configuration utility allows you
to change it, go right ahead and do so; you will need to release and
renew all of the IP addresses assigned to the other computers in order
for them to grab new addresses, of course.

While it is often possible to set up your routing table to work with
both NetScreen Remote and your local network at the same time, it all
depends on how you go about starting up and using NetScreen. If you
require assistance with that, you may wish to close this question (I
am presuming that you no longer require an answer as you have solved
your problem yourself?), and open a new one to address this new topic.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Clarification of Question by wschwader-ga on 21 Apr 2004 00:34 PDT
Even though I figured it out, I also should have known to give you the
information that I was using NetScreen Remote.  If you'd like to
supply the answer I'd be happy to pay you for your time.

Perhaps you can answer one last question though.  If I use 10.1.0.2
subnet 255.0.0.2 for the modem, and 10.0.0.0 subnet 255.0.0.0 for
NetScreen then is that good enough differentiation?

Thanks

Request for Question Clarification by aht-ga on 21 Apr 2004 00:45 PDT
Let me check up on a few details behind NetScreen and the NetScreen
Remote Client, before I post the Answer.

As well, the sub-net mask is not used in the way that your example
suggests; if you wish to differentiate the two adapters (the 'real'
3COM adapter, and the virtual NetScreen Remote adapter) using two
different subnets (namely 10.1.x.x and 10.0.x.x), you would need to
use a sub-net mask of 255.255.0.0 for both; I will explain this
further in my Answer.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher
Answer  
Subject: Re: Cannot Connect to Internet via DSL or my LAN with a new computer
Answered By: aht-ga on 21 Apr 2004 09:19 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
wschwader-ga:

Thank you for the opportunity to help you overcome the connectivity
problems with the new computer. Of course, since you ultimately found
the cause of the problem yourself, it is a bit awkward to provide this
Answer! It will help in documenting some of the useful techniques that
can be used to debug connectivity problems in the future, though, so
should be of value to you.

The conflict between your LAN IP address space (10.0.0.x) and the IP
address that your NetScreen client is set up for (10.0.0.x) was indeed
the culprit here. The NetScreen client provides a VPN interface to
Windows, allowing Windows to automatically establish and control a
secure tunnel through the Internet to your company's Juniper Networks
NetScreen VPN appliance. The problem here is that the address space
conflict meant that, as soon as your 3COM Gigabit adapter received its
IP address, the NetScreen Remote client would become active and take
over the exact same address space. Therefore, requests (such as pings,
etc.) intended for other machines in your local network, were instead
being sent to the VPN interface. As those IP addresses do not exist in
the company network at the other end of the tunnel, you would get no
response whatsoever.

A possible remedy, depending on how your company has configured the
security policies for the NetScreen Remote client, is to change the
address that the client listens on. You have inferred this already by
suggesting that you change the address of either the client, or the
local network.

I am going to recommend that you leave the client alone for now, and
change the local network instead. This means that you will not need to
fiddle with the settings in Windows for VPN, with the potential to
'break' it.

To change the local network, use a connected PC to access the
web-based configuration interface of the Visionnet 202ER-4, at
10.0.0.2.

After you have logged in, go to the LAN Configuration screen. Here,
you will see several items that will need to be changed. The first is
the DHCP address space from which the router assigns dynamic IP
addresses to your network devices. Please change this from the factory
defaults to the range of:

   192.168.10.3  to 192.168.10.32

Yes, we are moving completely away from the 10.0.0.x subnet for your local network.

Next, for the LAN IP address of the Visionnet 202ER-4, change it from
10.0.0.2 to 192.168.10.2, subnet mask 255.255.255.0. Leave the other
settings as they were, and submit the changes.

At this point, you will need to allow the router to restart, then you
will need to use the "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew"
commands to reacquire an IP address on your PCs (note that in W98, the
command is "winipcfg", for W2K/XP it is "ipconfig").

Now, your new computer should be set up to access the local network
resources through the 192.168.10.x subnet, and your NetScreen Remote
client through the existing 10.0.0.x address. One potential problem
here is that it is possible for your company's IT department to
configure your VPN user profile such that the NetScreen Remote client
would prevent 'Internet' traffic while active. So, if even after you
change the local network's address space, you are only able to access
the other PCs and the Internet with NetScreen disabled, that would be
the reason. This capability exists as an optional security measure to
prevent your PC from being a conduit between the Internet and the
corporate network.

--------------------------

One final note, regarding subnet masks. The mask is a binary mask,
meaning that if you write out an IP address in binary, and the mask in
binary, then anywhere that the mask has a 0, your PC will treat as
being accessible through that IP address' gateway. Obviously, I cannot
do this explanation justice using just words... and being a firm
believer in not reinventing the wheel, I will instead suggest that you
take advantage of this excellent resource available on (where else?)
the World Wide Web:

A Free Lecture-based Educational Course on IP Addressing and Subnetting
http://www.learntosubnet.com/

Also,

Learn to Subnet
http://www.cramsession.com/articles/files/learn-to-subnet-part-i----9162003-1529.asp

--------------------------

Please, do let me know if you run into further problems trying to get
your local network's IP address range changed. As for the NetScreen
Remote, you may want to enquire with your company IT department to see
if they can tell you whether your user profile allows you to access
your local network while the VPN tunnel is active.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher
wschwader-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Excellent.  Thanks for your help!

Comments  
Subject: Re: Cannot Connect to Internet via DSL or my LAN with a new computer
From: funkywizard-ga on 16 Apr 2004 04:33 PDT
 
I would try changing the ethernet cable. If that doesn't work, make
sure the ip configuration is set to get ips automatically, and do an
ipconfig /all to make sure it is getting its ip address properly.
Subject: Re: Cannot Connect to Internet via DSL or my LAN with a new computer
From: wschwader-ga on 16 Apr 2004 05:48 PDT
 
Thanks for the comment.  I've already proven that the cable is not at
issue since I use the same cable on another machine just fine.  I also
did try a second cable and that didn't help.  The ip is already set up
to get it automatically.  And I've done the ipconfig /all as well. 
That part checks out fine.

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